How to make a monster car hold the road?

After watching some vids of 427 Cobras, my youngest son and I are contemplating a monster car project.......like a Cobra.....little car, big engine. A hot rod built just for the experience of driving and performance. No frills, all thrills.

Obviously, on our budget, were not going to build a Cobra or anything exotic,...not a kit car.

So far, we're thinking a Fox Mustang convertible with a 429/460, 4 or 5 speed, 9-inch rear. There's several sources for the big-block-in-a-Fox swap that'll save a ton of time and money over trying to design and fabricate parts and mechanical workings of a one-off swap.

Now, of course, whenever you talk about a big block in a small car, you get the "It'll be so front heavy, it won't handle worth a damn and will only be good for straight-line action" comments.

I call B.S. on that.....obviously, cars like the 427 Cobra and 427 Daytona Cobra and 396/427 Vettes could be a handful to drive, but they obviously handled good enough to kick-ass and take names over some of the fastest, best handling cars in some of most famous road races on the greatest road course tracks in automotive history. Police in Europe used 440 Chrysler powered Jensen Interceptors for high-speed pursuits, and V-8 powered little Sunbeam Tigers tore up at the tracks too.

So, with the big-block/small car handling debate having been settled on the track with the trophies and legends to prove it,......here's my question,....

What tips, ideas, advice and/or experience does anyone have for improving/optimizing suspension and handling for a high performance big block/small car combo?




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I cant answer your question but Im wondering why a big block when the new small blocks make BIG power?
I wanted big power like a big block but didnt want to fabricate anything to fit so I built a dart stroker motor for my comet It will be producing around 1200 hp with around 1000hp to the wheels

 

A turbo 2.3 could be another option
cant specifically answer question on handling/suspension till we know what car

but essentially upgrade swaybars
rack in pinion conversion or that power steering(not power assist) setup
biggest/widest tire combo you can fit under car
in foxbody converting/Triangulated rear suspension you need to either get trailing arms with spherical ends or convert to torque arm, 3link- or parallel 4 link
turbular front control arms
sub frame connectors
and so fourth

 

Exactly. Ford introduced the Z460 this year which is the Boss 351 bored and boasts 575hp/575trq.

Check out Maximum Motorsports for aftermarket suspension. K-member replacement may make the difference on front end weight - I haven't compared.

B-R-A-K-E-S!

Why a convertible? There's a bit of body flex that comes with a convertible and even with subframe connectors - I don't know...

 

Come on people.

The guy and his kid WANT a BIG BLOCK in a SMALL CAR.

Don't try to persuade them away from that.

Really...nothing beats having a BIG block torque monster!!!

I say cut out the front suspension, put in a R&C crossmember, and drop in a mild big block, and if you can afford it, maybe not now, but later when your kid inherits it and has a decent education and job, he can slap on an 8-71 blower and have a nice damned dream car!

I am sure the guys at Rod and Custom could tell you which springs and parts you would need if you told them what engine you planned to drop in, and it would handle just fine.

 

To answer the question. Cobra's have more engine setback and huge tires to compensate for the extra front end weight. Corvette racers lightened the pi$$ out of those cars and also used huge tires in similar fashion to arrive at similar results. Power for power and weight for weight.. the Cobra wins in the corners with better weight distribution.

Here's what I would say to the big-block neighsayer's out there. My 429 SCJ made an easy 525 horses with hot-rodded factory parts. 600 would have been a piece of cake with a modern design head swap.

Sure small blocks can be stroked and persuaded into big-block power.. but the cost goes up MUCH faster than a milder big-block making similar power.. or more.. simply because it can get by with weaker and cheaper parts. No dart block, steel stroker crank(although that would be money well spent in a power quest), or really high-rpm required to do it.

 

Look for a 84-86 Corvette. They are at the bottom of pricing right now, and a ragged out one can be had for a little of nothing. Then, dump the small block and add a big block of your choosing-Ford, Chevy, whatever. They already have the suspension to handle massive power. Cheap fun!:Handshake

 

Or a Pinto with a 460.

Not as cool looking or as fast on the highway(at least you wouldn't want to drive it as fast as the Vette).. but a hell of a lot better weight transfer. Just depends on how you want to drive it, is all.

PS.. Miata's and RX-7's with stroked small-blocks are awesome too.

 

The only other thing you could do w/ the fox is set the mtr as low as possible in the frame & set it back an inch or 2.

 

Why not a hot small block?......Got one,... well, three actually. My Maverick is going to have a moderately built small block. I have an 87 T-Bird that's due for a 351 W or C, and I've been running a small block Chevy 383 stroker in a G-body Malibu for a few years now.

Why a big block? Overkill,.....the "Wow" factor......I LOVE big blocks

Actually. my choices are based on budget, convenience and availability. You can save a lot of money and time starting with something you already have

I've just happen to have two moderately modified big block Ford engine, and of all my varied project cars, two that fit the criteria.....an 83 Mustang convertible and a 75 Mustang II Mach-1.

The M II may already have it's legendary front suspension, but it's got body/rust/paint issues that the Fox doesn't, and it's a hardtop. The choice of convertible is also based some on the "roadster" factor of a Cobra......combine that with one of my candidate cars being a convertible, well, there you go.

 

Ok then.. I vote for the Fox with a 385 series swap.

Then.. add the thickest sway bar.. slightly stiffer springs than most would care to drive on a daily basis.. and the widest stickiest tires that can be mounted?.. and go have fun.

The car won't launch as well.. but it'll stick better in the corners for sure.

 

Sounds as though you have all that you need to create your FrankenStang. Looking forward to seeing pictures as it progresses.

 

The wide and stickies will be covered.

Thinking about fender flares, nothing radical or tacky, just enough for at least 17x9's up front, 17 or 18x10.5's in back........to maybe as wide as 10 front, 12 back.



or...



Probably take advantage of some of the suspension upgrades and modifications already available for general Fox performance and handling.....the fat swaybars are good advice.

Springs too.....obviously need ones with high enough spring rates for the big block, but should I go even more for better handling?

I was also wondering if a Watts link type set-up in the rear would help keep things from getting too squirrely back there.

That would really help with weight tranfer,....I wonder how much trouble that would be?....big block/Fox swaps already sit pretty close to the firewall....Considering we're going basic, no-frills (no heater or AC, stereo or any gadgets) possibly setting the firewall back, or scalloping it for engine setback is feasible......Setting the seats back, eliminating the back seat is doable. I'm not sure what it would take to set the engine lower. I imagine both set back and dropping the motor would complicate mechanical clutch linkage requiring a hydraulic set-up

 

cuz it would be rad and its different and they want it that way and it is a fun project and its cool.

 

Flares are my typical preference.. but I like the wide body kits too. That top car is outstanding and just begs for a big-block. I've always really liked those SVO spoilers since an old buddy had a nice SVO turbo deal many years ago making some ridiculous HP with really high boost. The car seemed very civil until it came up on boost and then became down right brutal with traction issues in high speed corners at over 90mph. I've been loose on pavement in aother cars at over 125 and that car scared me far more at only 90. IIRC.. it was just over 400 horses and he supposedly spanked many Porsche's and Vette's with it on the freeways up to around 160. With its better weight distribution.. the handling was outstanding.

This later model BB swap used to be very popular not too many years ago and the conversion parts should still be readily available(might be even moreso these days?). Maybe pop on over to the Mustang sites and 460.com to see other similar rides to get the creative juices flowing and figure out the logistics involved.

There are many similar setups running around in my area but every year I run across a street racer in St. Paul that runs a 79' GT with a stroked 460(can't remember what size but it's really low budget(all factory iron) and not overly large @502 or 514'ish). He has severe traction problems and my 383 s-10 stomps him hard all the way to about the 1,000ft mark.. at which point he eventually pulls past me by about 4 car lengths right up to the marker every single friggin' time. It seriously pisses me off.. but that's just big-block size and torque for ya. Then there's another 460powered MII(BIG stroker I think) running "early am meets" that is near full race. I've seen him getting pulled over and inspected a few times over the past few years as he crusies around looking for his next victim and I hear that car runs 8's at the strip and mid-9's on motor with little 10" streets. Way out of my league and I can't afford to run with that crowd. Bunch'a tricky bastards that'll lure you in with big lengths.. then take all your cash.

So, yeah.. the power to weight is great. Just be prepared to invest the extra time in weight distribution, suspension, and tire to be able to go fast.. and do it safely.. around corners. Nicest thing about BIG blocks is that they don't need such short gears and outrageous cam timing to be fast. Besides the locomotive type exhaust rumble.. they're very civilized in nature.