I am going to be buying a new flywheel for the 351W I am building. I am confused however as to if I should be looking for a 157 or 164 tooth flywheel. I will be using a D1TA-6394AA (72-73 Mustang) bellhousing with a Toploader. My questions are: Is there a benefit to the 164? Will it affect the starter I can use? Will a 164 fit in a stock 351 bellhousing? Is there a real benefit to the 164 over 157? Should I go aluminum? Other than weight and rotational capailities is there another benefit to going aluminum? Any recommendations for flywheel / clutch combos for a mostly street / occasional strip car? No HP estimates for now. Thanks
Let me preface this by saying I know nothing about a toploader. All my cars have a c-4 in them. That's where I base what little info I have. I'm sure someone will come on and give you more info. But, in the c-4 the bellhousing determines what size you must use. There is a small bell and a big bell. All 351w have a 28 ounce imbalance. There is no benefit that I know of in using the 164. The benefit in using the 157 is that it is smaller and will help in the header clearance. They both use the same starter. Hope this helps a little.
The bellhousing that you will be using will decide which tooth count you need. Bottom line. I don't know the part numbers. A general rule of thumb that has held true for me is: A 289/302 (except B302) will have 157t bells/flywheels. Then 351s will have 164t bells/flywheels. They bells are flywheel specific, so whichever bell you have will require it's specific flywheel. 157t wheels will not work with 164t bells, or vise-versa. So, what engine did the bell come from? If it is an iron bell, it is most likely a 164t, aluminum would most likely be 157t. This rule is not foolproof, but is true most of the time. There are 164t aluminum bells and 157t iron bells, but they are uncommon. Remember that the 164t bell is large, so some headers have fitment issues with this bell. Not all, but some. Often just grinding a corner or dinging a tube will clear things, but some headers just won't fit, period. Stock flywheels are iron or steel. Good ones are billet steel or aluminum. Iron/steel wheels take more time and power to spin up, but once the mass is rotating can enhance torque. Aluminum revs really fast, but also doesn't have the mass to 'bully' the driveline. So it all depends on what you need/want from your car. Iron is prefered for stock engines, steel is safe for streeters and adds to torque multiplication in drag racing. Aluminum has great no load throttle response and is said to be very good for course racing. That is my .02 I have always used 164t/11" clutch/billet steel/iron bell combo in front of my Toploaders. I do it for the 11" clutch. I want to try aluminum flywheel, but they are spendy. My current mild 302 revs slower than I like with the steel wheel. The last 302 I used this setup with was 'wilder' and I didn't notice the effect of the weight as much, if at all. I used the Lakewood on my 351c with 164t. It is very close in that bell. Some folks have to use cammed dowels and dial gauges to set the clearance per Lakewood's instructions. I was lucky and mine went straight together. I only bring this up because the aluminum bell is the least safe in high rpm, while the iron is a bit safer, and the Lakewood is the best for high performance. The clutch/flywheel setup can come through the floorboard if there is a failure at high rpm.
Oh, you will need to buy the starter for whatever the bellhousing came from. If it came from a 72 Stang with 351 and Toploader 4 speed, that is what you need to tell the parts counter person. All Toploader 4 starters are same-same, no matter tooth count. All Toploader 3 and C4/C6/FMX starters are the same, no matter tooth count. You will also have to most likely use a speedo cable from a 4 speed Toploader car too. The cable is too short for proper routing on stock Mavericks, and the gear teeth are traveling at the opposite angle. You can stretch the cable to reach on some Mavericks, but the cable is put in a bind and can fail quickly.
Thanks for the informative responses. The bell is listed as used for 71-73 351 Mustang. Cast iron. It's specifically 351 (on the David Kee Toploaders bellhousing ID chart) and not the usual 302/351 so I assume it's built for the 164 tooth. It's good to know about the starter required. I have someone that has an unused Fidenza or Firenza 164 tooth aluminum flywheel for sale at a decent price but I was holding off until I learned more about the differences...and had the cash... Now I think I will be doing alot of mock-ups to try to fit the linkage, the bell, and the 351W block in there before I get too far down this road. Not to mention the headers.....
You gotta do what you gotta do, but I'd be all over that flywheel. As long as it's 28 oz balance, you are good to go. That bell is the one I have on my car. All the linkages and such fit fine. It's the headers that will be the variable here. Edit: You need to have the engine plate for the 164t bell too. The 157 plate won't fit.
Yes the flywheel is the 28oz. Forgot about the engine plate...another item for the list. Thanks for the answers...
Dave, I've used the same starter with my Toploader 4 speed bell that I previously used on a 157 tooth C-4. The Toploader bell is also a 157 tooth, mid to late 60's casting.
Hmmmm... I've never had such luck. Wait! I'm wrong.:doh: The reason a C4 starter works with a 3 speed is the 157t bell. Sorry! I have never used a 157t bell with a 4 speed, so I was thinking about my 4 speeds needing a special starter. I am going to use a phrase that I actually hate, but it came to mind, so here it is: My bad! Thanks D. for pointing that out. It doesn't matter if it's a 3 or 4 speed, if it's 157t flywheel, it would take a C4 starter. Duh!
