351 Windsor Swap

on the brackets you are looking for Windsor only stuff. Why not use whats on the truck now? is he keeping it all? Look for late 70s early eighties full size cars.

 

Thanks. Yeah, this makes good sense. Only reason I was thinking about a crank is it's dead easy to make a stroker out of a 351w, and I could get a crank (and use my 302 pistons) for less than the cost of new pistons. IF I needed to replace the pistons. If I don't, then yeah, I'll probably spend that money somewhere else. Headers, according to Desktop Dyno, would be worth more HP on this engine than the stroker crank.

Will probably start off with whatever distributor is currently on it at first then upgrade it later. Kinda sucks that I can't use the one I've got since I really like it, but hey at least people will stop getting that disgusted look when they see that "Chevy" HEI cap.

I might. I'm going to plan on having to find all that stuff myself until I actually lay hands on it, but if the truck's got the brackets I need then yeah I'll gladly use them.

'79 truck wouldn't be using a front sump oil pan, would it?

 

the truck probably has a rear sump pan. Aftermarket pans can be bought for less than $100.

I wouldn't buy a cheap crank and throw it on without having it balanced with the rest of the assembly anyways. Plus there is the cost of new bearings for crang and rods. so that $280 crank job just gets more and more expensive. I'd rather run a seasoned short block than rebuild something that isnt broke. Just gives me more piece of mind.

 

(I assume you meant "wouldn't") But yeah, I get what you mean. You've just talked me out of it. I was just worried about having to deal with dished pistons but it sounds like I'll be ok regardless of the pistons it has.

And who knows? It might not even be stock. Might have some goodies in there... I'm not getting my hopes up, but a 32 year old engine that supposedly runs like a top and doesn't smoke, has an aluminum intake and a Holley carb, has very likely been gone through at some point, wouldn't you think?

So assuming I get lucky and this comes together according to plan, and there aren't large unforeseen expenses, (yeah, right ) I might be able to go ahead and swing the exhaust. What are my header options? Bearing in mind that I have lowered suspension and power steering...

 

thats because horse power depends on how much air you move through the motor. a stroker only lowers the rpm that the power is made at. usually a stroker will get beter torque numbers. to make horse power you need to increase the flow through the motor.

 

The truck will have a front sump pan for sure if it's 2wd. Don't know what the 4wd's had.

 

Right... I could get away with the manifolds on a 302 and still have some punch to it, but the bigger it gets the more that exhaust really becomes a restriction. Now I've got to see what I can do about that.

 

I think my 351w was out of a 4x4 because it was not a front sump. It looked like a 3/4 sump, which is a small front sump and larger rear sump. I really haven't seen a front sump oil pan for a truck. They mainly seem to of come in the older torinos and cars of that type.
If you can get away with a dipstick through the timing cover, you really should. I attempted to cheap out and make my own dipstick provision on the oil pan and it just gets in the way of the headers, which i haven't really found a cheap set that works. I have a set of flowtechs that will probably take some work or just get a header kit with the correct flanges if possible.
Another thing to consider is hood clearance. I know mine has an Edelbrock 351 Performer, and it will not clear a stock hood without some crazy low pro air filter setup.
And lastly, in my honest opinion, I think "notching" shock towers isn't really that great of a look. I would rather struggle with plug changes, but that's me and I won't be driving the car every day so it won't be that frequent. I am however considering getting rid of the shock towers completely and going with a tubular upper A-arm and all sorts of fun, but that may have to be down the road.

Good luck with the swap and post lots of pictures please!

 

Great thread and I, too, am very interested. Please keep us posted and take pictures as you go along!

Bruce

 

Well, I'll settle the oil pan question on Saturday I suppose. I'm seeing aftermarket front sump oil pans on eBay in the $50 range, or I can probably scrounge one up at Pull-A-Part in the $5 range. I mean chrome's nice and all but nobody's looking at my oil pan... Shouldn't be a problem.

For the dipstick I will probably use my current stuff. Hood clearance... I don't know what kind of intake this engine has, other than it's an aluminum four-barrel, but if it's comparable in height to my current one then I can roughly figure the whole thing's about an inch higher, right? Worst case I already cut a big hole in the hood once for the scoop, ain't scared to make it bigger if it comes to that...

And then there's the headers. Man I have found nothing conclusive about that. I just don't know what to get yet. Crites seemed to be the silver bullet for everybody a while back but apparently you can't get hose anymore. I might have to run manifolds, at least for a while, just to get this done. I could always wait around for a set of Crites headers to appear in the classifieds, or wait for somebody on here to come up with something.

And I'm kinda on the fence about the shock towers. Might open up some options for headers, but I'm not worried about plug changes. If it's tuned right I shouldn't have to it do too often. I've had the same set of plugs on my 302 for about 30,000 miles. Occasionally I check one and say "yep, still looks right" but that's it. I'm okay with having to take an engine mount loose and use a floor jack for each side once every few years.

But I will hate myself for not doing it when I had the chance if it becomes a frequent problem. Just don't know yet.

Count on that! This will probably end up like my AC thread unless it's a total disaster.

 

Anybody know whether stock manifolds clear without bashing up or cutting on the towers?

 

OK, I am going to throw out a few things if you don't mind.
1) All 351Ws had dished pistons after 69. Just depends on application how much of a dish they had. Only the 69 4V engines had flat tops. The truck 4V engines still had dished pistons.
2) Don't use the old 302 firing order cam, use a HO or 351 cam. You will beat the #1 main barring out of the crank (been there done that).
3) As mentioned earlier, About the only thing you will gain out of stroking is torque. Horsepower gains are minimal. If you build an engine on a Desktop dyno and leave all the settings the same (cam, head flow, exhaust etc...) and just change the bore and stroke. HP will stay almost the same (may move up and down the RPM range a bit) and torque will change. I know real world numbers will vary but you will get the idea.
4) Cam, heads and exhaust are where you will gain all of your power and torque from. Ford has the worst head design on the planet, The GT40P's are a good head but you run into the problem of the plugs coming straight out of the heads and hitting the manifolds. GT40 heads might be a better choice without loosing huge power numbers.
5) 302 manifolds will fit better than the 351 manifolds. I have seen some 351s put in without shaving the towers. But before you do that think about the next time you will need to change the plugs. It is not a big job to do the shave back on the shock towers. It all goes good after the first cut, LOL.
6) Match your parts!!!!!!!! Start with the head flow and compression ratio then work out from there. An engine that works together will make much more HP and torque than one that has miss matched parts. I have seen many engines that have ran better with smaller carbs, cams and such.

Putting the 351W in the car is a great step. It just takes a little more work and time to do. You wont be disappointed.

One last thing, don't forget to look at the transmission and rear gears.

As always this is just some things to think about and just my .

 

Your are well appreciated, thanks...

1. Noted... Unless the dish is just huge though, GT40/GT40P, E7 or my current 302 heads will put the compression within acceptable range anyway though, right? (Guess it's all moot until I get the engine and find out what pistons and heads I'm actually working with.)

2. Noted. I've been waiting for somebody to tell me why I shouldn't do that. Now I just need to decide what cam to use.

3. I have observed exactly what you're saying. In fact, with all other things being equal (which they won't be, but...) if I simulate my 302 and then change nothing except the 3.5" stroke to make it a 351, I gain very little horsepower. BUT I get about 50 more lb/ft of torque and both that and the HP all kicks in about 500 RPM earlier. (This is not a bad thing at all for a street driven car, because the lower RPMs are what I actually use 85% of the time.)

4. I hope I can find the right heads for this for the right price. I am actually kinda glad I'm going to have to buy another cam, too, because that will help me get the most out of what I can come up with. The exhaust is really going to be a deciding factor. If I can't get a set of headers for the right price within the right time frame I will be using manifolds, and that will affect how I build the rest of the combo.

If I could stretch this project out all all summer it would be different, but it needs to come together pretty quick because this is a working vehicle. Unfortunately, the amount of space I have at home to store car-sized things, and the homeowner's association's attitude towards... well., me... dictates that if I'm going to have a project car, it needs to also function as a car. Some would say "then you're in the wrong hobby" or "then you're in the wrong house" and to them I say "Balderdash." The Neighborhood Association is lucky I'm not into dirt track racing 'cause I would drive that f@#$%er to work every day too!

5. Still undecided on the tower mods. I know there are a lot of good reasons to do it though. I guess I need to look at some more pictures of finished cars with this mod.

6. I'm doing my best to do that, within reason. The software simulation's helping quite a bit....

 

Priceless!

 

Well that was easy. Comp's simulation software's first recommendation was exactly the same grind I have in my 302, #268H, but with the 351w firing order.

(This is making assumptions of course. The cam I ultimately go with may change depending on the compression, heads and exhaust I end up with.)