Gasser dilemma, and the Chevy-into-Ford debate

Well, I got my Falcon Gasser home, and have started making plans and buying parts (ebay and PayPal love me).

I can't go overboard on this, I am on a budget, and due to costs and the lack of availability of certain must-have parts.....

I might have to go Chevy power,....at least to start.

First off, the car came with Trans-Dapt universal engine & trans crossmembers for a Chevy motor and trans.....no big deal, Trans-Dapt makes Ford crossmembers too.....which leads to my first dilemma

I'd prefer to go big block, and I want to keep the car as close to period correct as possible, and the only "hot" big block Fords from that era are the FEs (390, 406, 427 and 428)....problem is, all but the 390's are considered "classic" engines, and are no longer in production.....and the originals go for ungodly prices.....my dream combo would be a 427 side or top oiler, side/cross bolt, etc, with a good ol' Toploader or T-10 behind it. I wouldn't mind going with a 390, but there's about a 50/50 split of opinion on the 390 either being a good motor to hot rod with lots of performance potential, or a total boat-anchor that no amount of money and parts will make anything but a slug truck engine.

So, due to the rarity and "rare" prices the "performance" FE engines command, I allowed myself a little slack on "period correct" and considered a 429/460 that came into production in '68.....close enough....

In Ford's favor, I recently bought a performance built 460 and C-6 for my 64 Galaxie project, and I already have a low-rise dual quad and carbs I was going to use on the Galaxie, so that saves me the expense and trouble "street"-tuning a tunnel-ram, mech. injection or having to piece-together a used, cheap but workable blower set-up. Though the Galaxie was going to be a more usable and drivable car than the Gasser, which, for the near-future at least, is going to be mostly for show.

I also have another early model 460 engine in need of a complete rebuild.

but....

Dilemma number 2: Hardly ANYONE makes Ford swap parts anymore, or "vintage" race parts for 429/460s. One thing I wanted, hands-down, no question, was fenderwell headers. A "Gasser" just isn't a Gasser without them,....but after exhaustive (pun intended) searching and inquirey, it's pretty obvious the only way I'm going to have fenderwell headers is if I have them custom made.....which looks to cost more than I paid for the car, and is WAY out of my budget. (They don't even make them for small block Fords)

The Chevy solution: I already have a couple of big block Chevy engines, including a rare '65 396, two Muncie 4-speeds and a Chevy T-10.... and there's a s##tload of vintage, swap and race parts readily available for Chevy motors......and even though no one makes big block Chevy-into Ford-Falcon fenderwell headers, I'm betting a set of BBC/62-67 Chevy II fenderwell headers will work. and there's a ton of used and reasonably priced dual-4, "stack" injection or even a blower set-up that, with some wheeling-dealing and calling in some favors, I could probably fit into my budget, that would make the car that much more impressive and fit the Gasser persona.

Note: I looked up 3 Falcon Gassers on ebay, and a dozen by Google search ....about half had Ford motors, and among the ones that didn't, most were Chevy powered, but there were several with Pontiac motors, a couple of Chrysler Hemis, and one with some kind of Desoto engine in it.

Now, I know how most of you (and I) feel about Chevy motors in our Mavericks (not my thing, don't see any practical reason why)....

But when it comes to old Gassers and there's availability and budget issues that a Chevy swap can solve, is it really that bad?



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I personally dont like chevy in ford, I walk right by them at car shows.

 

X2, may as well marry your 1st cousin. You may like it, but everyone else will look down on it.......

 

I'm for a Ford in a Ford but it is your car and you have to do what makes you happy and not worry about me or anyone else walking by your car at a show. Blue thunder make an aftermarket BBF head that has BBC exhuast flange mounting. I bet someone makes an adapter to bolt chevy headers to the Ford heads, I think that the ports were spaced the same, maybe the shape and of course the mounting bolts are different. I am pretty sure I have seen these.

The Desoto motor is probably an early Mopar hemi, they came out stock in Desotos.

 

There is a company in Detroit doing stroker kits for the 390, was in Modified Mustangs and Fords about a year ago, if I remember correctly. Seems like the kit was around $1500. Would be cool to keep it Ford/Ford. I would love to someday have a gasser, the new CC has a 65Comet gasser, awesome car.

 

I don't know how fast you want to go, but I believe a 460 is easy to build and out run the BBC's, I run a mild 460 in the Stang. Now when you look at over 700hp, BBC are cheaper, maybe... Then above 1,000hp, they are all about the same. The money you save on the 460, you could afford the headers.

 

I'd stuff that dual-quad 460 in it if it were mine.

 

That would be perfect with those BB/Chevy II/Nova fenderwell headers seeing as how the Nova and Falcon have similar sized engine compartments/chassis.....

But the heads are $1,750 a pair, bare....ouch!

Looks like If I want fenderwell headers for a Ford engine, I'm going to have to get in good with an exhaust artist.



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Have you been on the H.A.M.B board yet? Those guys worship the old FE engines, and I'd bet somebody on there could point you in the right direction as far as parts go.

You could buy one of the weld up header kits and make your own, or just cut and fit them and get somebody to weld them up for you.

I'm not really old enough to say what is period correct, but Chrysler and Desoto Hemi's were used in a lot of gassers, as well as the early big block Olds motors. Dodge 413's were also popular as well as 348 -409 Chevys. The MEL series {Mercury Edsel Lincoln} 425's were used in a few cars, but parts for them are hard to find.

A well built FE series shouldn't cost much more to build than any other big block. Places like Kanter Automotive and Egge Machine still carry bearings, rings, gaskets, etc. 352's and 390's should be fairly easy to find as they were used in the big cars and pickups until the Lima series [429-460] came out. True there may not be as many speed parts out there new as there are for the newer motors, but there are a lot of good used parts around, you just have to find them. Again, the H.A.M.B. has a classified section, you can post what you're looking for. I'd bet somebody on there has it, or knows where to get it.

 

A 390 would be more than adequate for what I need.

I'm not building a race motor.....I won't be taking this car down the track anytime soon....this car was built in the 60's. The straight axel set up is right out of an old truck or van, and has the old drum brakes on it,....even if everything else was proven safe and sound for it's age, I'm not racing on 4-wheel drums.

...shooting more for a high performance street motor, aluminum pistons, around 10:1 compression, probably a Mutha-Thumper cam for the drag-racing "lope", and try to come up with something unusual and visually "stimulating" for an intake setip, such as a dual quads, a crossram, electroically converted Hilborn style stack injection ($$$ though) or maybe even build a streetable blower motor (A local racer has a couple of rebuilt 6-71's he'll let go for about $500 each, and lots of pullys and blower accessories, if I can shop around and find a good deal on an FE or 429/460 blower manifold, he'd probably be able to set me up fairly cheap as far as blowers go)

 

If you sell off one of those BB Chevs and a 4 speed you would have enough $$ to build the 460.Put a set of finned aluminum covers on it a big oval air breather and 90% of the onlookers woulden't even reconize the 460.Check out 460ford.com for used parts, fenderwell headers for a 1973-79 ford pickup could work (I modified a set of 351M fenderwells to fit a 460 once) This could be done on a budget just take your time deals are out there.

 

Why does it matter so much? Stuff a chevy in. Doesn't bother me the slightest. A cool fast car is a cool fast car.

 

What are you talking about? Just because they arent as plentiful as a 5.0 or a 350 doesnt mean they are extinct..

There is all sorts of brand new FE engines and parts avaliable.
You can get things like aluminum side oiler 427 blocks
http://www.genesis427.com/Alum.htm
cast iron side oiler blocks
http://www.genesis427.com/Iron.htm
and completely new crate 427 side oiler engines
http://www.robertpondmotorsports.com/427-ford-crate-engines.htm
http://www.fespecialties.com/

Or if you have a block you can get brand new aluminum heads for the FE blocks from companies like edelbrock and they are about the same price new as heads for a big block chebby
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/60069/10002/-1

You can even get aftermarket bolt on tuned port EFI setups for the FE engine
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pf_ford.shtml

heck you can even get 427 FE aluminum heads and blocks from shelby of america.http://www.shelby-cars.com/Shelby_Alum_Heads.htm
Or complete brand new engines from Roush racing
http://www.roushperformance.com/engines/
they started offering those way back in 2005
so its not just some new fad http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2005/11/roush-performance-451r-fe-engine-debuts-at-sema/

But even more importantly you can even go with the all out ultimate FE block and buy all the components for a brand new 427 SOHC
http://www.dovemanufacturing.com/sohc_heads.html
but yes those parts are very pricey
http://www.doveengineparts.com/documents/80.html


Blocks, cranks, heads, everything on those engines is in production because the nostalgia racers have been gaining popularity and that is one of the big hitters in that respect.
And parts for them are more common then you think, intake manifolds, pistons rods, heads whatever... You can buy full forged Scat 390 FE rotating assemblies from Summit for $1600 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-94640/
and yes that is comparable or cheaper then some of the similar BBC kits.
I guess the biggest question is what do you need because the parts are out there? http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/6-4L-390/Engine-Family/Ford-big-block-FE/

Of course if you want a cheap FE block why not just get an old 360 block out of a pickup truck, bore it out and put a 390/428 crank in it, they drop right in, and those engines are a dime a dozen even around here.

And classic speed parts for the FE series engines are all over Ebay. Dual quads and tri-powers were common on those engines from the factory and you can buy them fairly reasonably(even with carbs)http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Fe-Thr...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43aed4a608&vxp=mtr, all the way down to Inglese IDF intakeshttp://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Inglese...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c61719cfc&vxp=mtr

As for the 390 being a boat anchor remember this...
The 390, 406, 410 and 428 use 2 cranks and 2 pistons with the same 6.488 rod length, the only difference is in the bore.. (Yes both the 428 and the 428 cj have the same bore and stroke they different heads, the CJ has bigger valves and the CJ has stronger rods they were rated at about 330 hp but averaged 400+hp with just a 4v carb from the factory) the bores are 4.00," 4.050," 4.130," and 4.230". The 360 and the 352 have a smaller stroke then the bigger displacement engines.
And remember all those old tri-power 390's. Many of those cars came from the factory with a 2v/4v engine and had an aluminum 3x2v intake manifold in the trunk that was meant to be installed by the dealer and raised the engine's output to 401 horsepower

And for some good light reading
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/15999_fe_quick_facts/index.html

 

All good links, but out of my budget as far as engines go. The bare iron 427 block cost as much as my entire 12 sec. 454.

Lots of good sources for parts though. That could be a big help, thanks

If this car was as much show as go, the investment might be worth it. One of those complete FE's (starting at $8,500) would be worth saving for for my Galaxie, or a Cobra kit, but not for an old homemade Gasser, unless I was going to go full boogy on the Gasser to make it worthy of the motor investment.

I usually get my "built" or modified engines by buying other people's major investment at a "got bills to pay, so got to sell my toys", or "Built my hot rod but (A) don't have time to drive it (B) can't afford to drive it" price.

The 460 I just bought was a 72 P.I. rebuilt with forged pistons, 10:1 compression, hefty hydraulic cam, aluminum intake with a 750 Holley and other performance internal/externals.....guy paid over $3,000 for the rebuild by a professional shop 15 years ago for a show truck project.....he got the truck running, drove it around town awhile, but took it off the road to save on insurance costs. Home family and bills stalled the bodywork and paint.....so, he'd pull the truck out of the garage once a month or so, and do a couple of burn-outs to impress the neighborhood kids, and park it.

He recently decided he wasn't ever going to be able to finish the truck, so he pulled the 460, and installed a stock small block to make the truck useful for everyday. The 460 only had a couple of hundred miles on it, got a fresh set of gaskets and the carb rebuilt, and I picked up the engine and the C-6 trans with shift kit and B&M shifter for $1,000.

Last year, I bought a dyno-confirmed 480 HP 454 from a guy that spent almost $4,000 to build it. He couldn't afford to drive the car with high gas prices and the bad economy. The engine only had about 3,000 miles on it, and I picked it up for $1,800.

Buying used hot-rodded motors is risky, you have to be cautious and smart, but you can get great deals for half or less the cost of the performance rebuild. Most people just aren't willing to pay anywhere near what it cost to build for a used engine off a private party.

My dilemma now is one ready-to-go engine and two cars that need it



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Now that's a good idea! There's no shortage of fenderwell swap headers for trucks. Thanks