Anybody know the code on the orignal toploaders that came with the 302 mavericks? Also can these trannys hold up to approx 500 hp and torque maybe a little less? Another question is can I get a bellhousing to go from these to a 351 cleveland?
Ooohhh ok I misunderstood... So will a toploader hold up to approx 500 hp and torque? Know where I can find one?
ahhh i dont know about 500 ponies , it should make sure you have a clutch that can hold the power prolly check ebay, if you have any swap meets before winter check them out, iknow in augest there was ford meet near me and there was about a dozen top loaders for sale at the swap
Is there someplace maybe on this site maybe not that I can find out when and where swap meets will be?
Look for a 'wide ratio' toploader... The best stuff for a 351 would be the 11" bellhousing/flywheel/clutch. This is what came on most 351 and Boss 302 cars during the era. The 289/302, and 3 speed Mavs all came with 10" clutches. Nothing wrong with the 10" stuff, it is more compact and will interchange with your 351c just fine, but naturally has less clutch material, therefore less holding ability. I was under the impression you already had a 4 speed on your 70 351c... I must have misread. That would have been perfect. I ran a stock 70 Stang wide ratio trans/11" clutch/stock Hurst shifter combo on my Mav. It all fit like a glove. Dave
The iron case 3.03 3-speeds that came in the Mavs are every bit as strong as the 4-speeds, they used them in heavy cars w/big blocks. And they are both considered "toploaders" cause the shafts and gears install through the top. I always prefered the close ratio trans to keep the rpms up between shifts.
FYI ... the close ratio's are better for drag racing ... the wide ratio's are better for road racing. I have a wide ratio ... wish it was a close ratio ...... I didn't know better when I bought it.
I have always figured it the other way around... I know for sure road racers like close ratios... They can make more precise shifts for the twisties. When it comes to drag racing, the wider gears allow better use of rpms in straight line acceleration. The idea that a wide ratio causes excessive rpm drop between gears is WRONG. It has a wider ratio yes, but it is perfect for street and racing IMO. Most 3 and 5 speeds, have wider ratios. Autos are about the same, but need a much steeper gear for the same acceleration. If anything, the close ratio is too close for drag and spirited street driving. The close ratio is certainly worse on effieciency, fuel and leverage both. If you use a 3.50 gear for example: Close ratio first gear is 8.12 while wide ratio is 9.73... Second gear is 5.92 and 6.75 respectively, 2.20 and 2.98 gear drop. 4.52 and 4.76 for third, a 1.40 and 1.99 gear drop. 3.50 and 3.50 in fourth, a 1.02 and 1.26 gear drop. Now a C4 with 3.50 gears: 7.35 5.11, for 2.24 gear drop 3.50, for 1.61 gear drop (Notice that running a C4 would be similar to running a 4 speed, but only using the top 3 gears) I know this takes some study, but one thing that should be a glaring issue is that the auto and close ratio both need much more than a 3.50 gear to equal the potential of the wide ratio in 1st and 2nd... This means they are less economical in street/strip driving. To make the example: For a close ratio to equal a wide ratio (with 3.50) in acceleration, it needs a 4.20 gear! For a C4, it's 4.62! Therefore, if your street strip car has a wide ratio, you get 4.11/4.62 low gears, with 3.50 cruising. This is hard to put in a post, I hope I am making sense... I ran 4.11s in my wide ratio 75... I had a first gear of 11.43! To get that with a close ratio, I would have needed to run a 4.93 to get the same acceleration. 4.11s are bad enough in street driving, the other would be that much more brutal. Running small displacement and the SBF being an engine that actually likes to rev, that is quite an advantage. My 75 embarrassed several cars that made more power and torque because of this. I remember a BBC Camaro once, the guy was perplexed and just shaking his head with embarrassment... I didn't say anything, but I did some quick math and thought "he needed a 5.44 rear gear to be on a level playing field". Gearwise, of course... he had much more torque, so he could have done with less. He had a 3.73 gear, for about a 7.80 first gear. By second gear in my car, he was over. (I am having a little grin right now recalling all the Chebbies that should have waxed me, but didn't) I won't even get into 3 and 5 speeds, they have low first gears and high top gears with lots of rpm drop between. 5 speed being the better option of course, but not because of the 5th gear unless you are cruising. Anyway, the wide ratio is the only 4 speed I personally would want on a dual purpose street/strip vehicle. You can take that for what it's worth, but from my experience, the rpm drop never made me say "boy, my gears are too far apart"... I never noticed a thing to tell the truth. Dave Btw: I have a WR now, with a 3.00 gear. For giggles: 8.34 1st 5.79 2nd 4.08 3rd 3.00 4th and the thing feels spectacular rpm wise between gears... A month ago it had a 3 speed toploader: 8.34 1st ~5.00 2nd (forgot exact second gear ratio for 3 speed) 3.00 3rd *Factory gearing and tranny If I ran a CR, I would have slowed the car down in first gear: 6.96 5.07 3.87 3.00 To be fair, the 3 speed gear drop did bother me and the CR would have been an improvement for driving in general.
My understanding was the wide ratio required less shifting on road courses ... could stay in 3rd for most of the twisties .... Close ratio kept the RPM's up in the power band better for drag racing ... Pretty sure most of the Shelby's came with wide ratio 4-speeds ... mine came out of a GT-350 ... not sure if it was the original tranny or not though ...
Everything else aside... we could argue for days Street driving, wide ratio is the winner, hands down. Gear ratios don't lie. I'll agree to disagree on any type of full time, special purpose, racing car of any type. I have never raced professionally myself... but I have had many manual trannys on the street and WR is where it's at. Dave Also, my post should not be read that I was down on 5 speeds. That is a whole other ball of wax and better in many ways. I was just using them as an example that the WR gear ratios were not too far apart. Just because it is called "wide ratio", it is only to differentiate it from the other toploader... the gears are plenty close.
Dave ... I may have it backwards ... I may have a CLOSE RATIO ... not a WIDE RATIO ... I do know which ever mine is ... it's NOT the best one for drag racing. I'll have to slide under the car one of these days and get the numbers off it. I can't remember now which one I have!
Are you familiar with David Kee? "David Kee Toploaders Inc." http://www.4speedtoploaders.com/ Here is a forum that he posts in, and he gave a recommendation to a member. He did it in 1/100th the words I used: http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-39943.html
Yeah ... i've been there before ... I think that site helped me figure out what color speedo gear to get to go with my 3.25:1 rear ... Now I'm curious ... I'll have to get under the car tomorrow and see which ratio I have ...
Imagine that! I've had both wide- and close-ratio 4-speeds in my car. I could definitely tell a difference in the spread, had to row the close-ratio faster.
