I have a roller 5.0. I intend on keeping it that way but I will be doing a carb. My ?'s are....... 1) Will any chain work with my set up? 2) will I need to run a two piece eccentric or a one piece? 3) What is your guys view on gear drives noisy or other wise. I see this one on egay. This price is right but is it a pos or what. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-GEAR-DRIVE-SB-FORD-NOISEY-289-302-351W-Mustang-5-0_W0QQitemZ8051187771QQcategoryZ33625QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I know I want a true double roller at least and I think the factory piece is allready, at least it looks to be. Call me old school, but I kinda like the sound of a gear drive. What do you think of the durability?
just get a chain.. yes gears drive sound cool... but IMO gear drive puts too much stress on the camshaft.. also you have to drill holes in the block ot make it fit.
had a pete jackson for the last 400+ runs. track only. no problem. am thinking of going back to hain, just to see if any different. supposedly "the german chain" setup is the hot ticket these days. i think that unless you want the sound, go chain. by the way, no drilling on pete jackson gear drive. uses floater gears.
we were talking about the gear drive at the track today. don't know much about the benefits over the chain, but one guy said if the chain breaks you replace it, but if the gear drive breaks you hav metal throughout your engine. don't know if this is true or not but thought i'd throw it out to you guys.
Have run both types. The gear drive is supposed to keep the cam timing at an exact setting, where the chain stretch, may alter it a bit. Can't say I really see much differance in the one's we ran. Takes a bit more energy to turn the gears if you want to look at it that way too. Never heard of having to drill the block on a Ford for the gear drive, you do have to grind the inside of the timing cover a bit, for the idler gear pin to clear. A quality chain should work fine for most applications, get the multiple keyway type, for some future cam change's, fine tuning ability, etc.
Just run a double roller chain. They're cheap and reliable. If you want some whine coming from under the hood, put a blower in there. Chain stretch actually helps an engine run. Belts do even more so and here's why. As the engine revs up it takes more HP to turn the cam. Because of this, the chain/belt will stretch causing the cam timing to retard. What does this do?? It moves the torque curve up in the RPM range, which also results in more power. When the engine comes down in RPM, the chain/belt returns to normal and advances the cam, which picks up the bottom end. Since belts tend to stretch a little more than chains do, they'll give more retard at the top end. It also retards ign timing, but you can tune for that. If you pick up the right offsset cam bushings, you can tune the cam timing without needing a multi keyway or adjustable sprocket.
i have the pete/jackson noisy with the 3 way.i didn't have to drill no holes in the block,just ground off the tab,inside the timing cover.no problems as of yet.if you want durability,stick with a name brand.those ebay chinese made pcs.are pcs.of crap!!not saying any of the different brands are prone to breakage,but if you want to kill your motor,then the ebay pc.is the way to go.
I think for the street a double roller is more than enough.Gear drive does sound cool though.The last one I bought came from Australia(double roller w/German chain and a Torrington bearing between the thrust plate and the cam) Real nice piece,quality made.I believe it was Rollmaster brand.Don't be afraid to spend a few dollars more on a good set-up.Bad things happen real quick when you have one let go.JMO
I guess I am a bit confused on this, if my chain has .125 stretch in it, the engine should run better? When you degree in a cam at installation, it had better be within1-2 degree's of spec. With a stretched chain, that is a bit iffy on getting it there. Most engines I have had to replace chains on with lots of stretch, run like crap and start like me trying to get out of bed in the AM, slowly if at all. Then there is the noise inside the cover that the chain makes when contacting said cover at speed. Turn the crank by hand, and see how far it goes before the cam or valves move when the chain is stretched. Some of this is taken up as rpm increases but still cannot return to exact cam timing specs. Twist the dizzy to make up for it is a band-aid, but a new chain is the cure. Now new computer controlled belt drives, are not as critical, because the "brain" figures all that correct cam position etc. for you. That is until the belt breaks and then Mr. "new engine man" enters into the equation. jmo.
There are 3 methods in regards to the cam meshing with the crank. Belts, gears, and chains. Belts-expensive, they work great, eat up the least amount of power and require a little thought on how to make it work--on a street motor. They're usually designed around race engines alone (for our SBF applications). You can get them either wet or dry...best bet is a dry setup. But be prepared to shell out close to $2000 all said & done. Gears-noisy (even the quiet ones are noisy), they transfer crank vibration to the camshaft (eats up power that way by causing vibrations in the valve springs), they eat up power by means of the teeth meshing, and they are usually more expensive than a good ol' chain. There are a few ways of using a gear drive. DynaGear makes a nifty setup that doesn't require a bunch of mods to the cover. Pete Jackson does soo--but they use 2 different size idlers, one large and one small. I like the Dynagear myself. OR (best bet if you are dead set on a gear drive) is to have a custom made gear drive. 2 gears. One little one on the crank, one twice the size on the cam..no stinking idlers. Same setup that a lot of sprint car guys use. Down side is that you have to have a custom camshaft ground that is designed to turn backwards--but they still tend to make some noise, transfer harmonics (vibrations) to the valvetrain, but they are ROCK solid in terms of timing and reliability. If something breaks in the motor, the cam keeps turning as long as the end of the crank turns. Sometimes makes for some interesting parts if a motor failure occurs LOL. Or, last but certainly not least, the ol' tried and true chain. Roller, double roller, flat link--those are the 3 basic kinds. They are all quiet (flat link is the quietest), they eat up the least amount of power next to a belt drive, they don't transfer harmonics to the valvetrain...and most importantly they are cheap, simple, and reliable. Most aftermarket chains are double roller type-2 rows of gear teeth and 2 rows of chain links. They're a LITTLE noisier than the flat link but I can't say that I've ever heard any noise from them on a Ford engine (that big ol aluminum cover & water pump must eat up a little noise). They work well on both street engines and race engines. I know of a guy using a standard replacement double roller chain on a .900"+ lift 285 duration @.050 lift solid roller...spinning a 424" windsor (or is it really a windsor? SVO style block, cleveland style heads...but the block is a windsor style in it's construction) in excess of 9000 RPM with the help of a little boost...and it lives a nice life inside the front cover. Single dowel pin and all. But, the crank does have dual keyways machined into it. Guy says that the keys are the weak point. Everyone else says the cam dowel is the weak point. Owner of the 2500+ HP Mustang says that he's never sheared a cam dowel; only the keys. A GOOD cam bolt and the proper washer and it won't be a problem (or so I'm told). Best parts about a chain...most can be had for less than $40 (unless you get the high $$$ cloyes chain) and they all follow the KISS principle.
I have the problem of not explaining myself very well. You are correct in saying that a chain that has been stretched and is now loose (plastically deformed) is not desirable. Once the chain has been plastically deformed and can not elastically return to its original shape, then it's junk. Before the chain is plastically deformed and can still stretch elastically, it will be able to retard some what (not near as much as a belt) at high RPM and still return to the original spec when the engine stops. Obviously a loose chain will retard the cam timing at all speeds making it difficult to start because of low cylinder pressure and like you say bang around on the cover and generally make life miserable for the engine until it fails. Under normal engine operation, a chain that is perfectly fine will always stretch and come back based on engine speed. It won't be very much, but it does happen.
My setup is similar, roller block with a carb. I have a RollMaster double roller chain w/ machined steel billet sprockets. Was almost too pretty to put under a timing cover. You will have to choose the timing set and cam dowel pin length according to which fuel pump eccentric (1-piece or 2-piece) you choose. Or just go with an electric pump like I did and use the short dowel pin and no eccentric. Makes it especially easy if your 5.0 timing cover doesn't have provisions for mounting a mechanical pump.
