Thanks cash for clunkers...

Discussion in 'Other Automotive Tech & Talk' started by Jamie Miles, Aug 23, 2009.

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  1. Bum's_Steer

    Bum's_Steer Member

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    REALITY CHECK

    FACT: Of the estimated 500,000+ cars taken in and applied for "Clunker" status, the rejection rate has been running about 80%, and the final tally for cars successfully traded in as clunkers is projected to be about 150-200,000, tops.

    FACT: New car sales in the United States has been well over 10 MILLION a year (10 million being considered a bad year) So, using the lowball estimate of 10 million cars sold a year covering the "clunker" age range from 1984 to 2001, that means well over 170 MILLION CARS were sold in the U.S. during those years.

    Let's see.....at least 170 MILLION minus....ok, let's go ahead and say all 500,000 clunkers are accepted and destroyed.....

    that leaves well over 169,500,000 cars potentially STILL being used, available for resale and recycling of all their parts.

    One Hundred and sixty nine MILLION, five hundred thousand cars

    And that's taking the bare lowest estimate of annual car sales, and a WAY over estimate of clunker's traded in.

    165,500,000!!

    I'd say there's still plenty of used cars available to people that need an affordable used car, people who need parts, and for used car dealers and salvage yards to not have to worry about going broke and going out of business from their inventory drying up because of the "horrible" clunker program that's "going to wipe out an entire generation of cars!" LMAO!


    Some P.S.'s

    Only a complete idiot would turn in a car worth more than the clunker price. Used cars with trade-in values more than $3,500-$4,500 aren't clunkers, their called trade-ins, and they'll still be for sale, and still eventually recycled, all their parts available for re-use. Neither Dealers or the government can force someone to trade-in their $7,000 used car as a $4,500 clunker.

    Only an average idiot, but an idiot all the same, would turn a nice car as a "clunker" if he knew he could get more selling it privately. New car sales aren't exclusive to a clunker trade-in, and if you take the time and make the effort to sell your car privately in the local paper, or on ebay or craig's list or something, the dealerships are not going to run out of inventory.....there'll still be plenty of new cars on dealer's lots, and more coming after the clunkers program is long over. If you take the time to advertise your super clean used car and sell it privately for more money than you'd get for it as a clunker, new car dealers aren't going to tell you to get lost, they're not going to say "we don't want your non-clunker money spent on our new cars"!

    If alot of the clunkers traded in were more valuable than the $3,500-$4,500 clunker discount, well, then their owners were lazy, stupid, or too anxious to get their car's real value, or all of the above, and deserved to get screwed.

    And remember, the government just came up with the program. It wasn't mandatory, no one was forced to turn in their "clunkers" to be able to buy a new car.....it's "success", and the amount of cars "wasted" on it falls completely on the people that turned their cars in. Not the dealers, the government, any political party, or the President.

    Personally, if I saw a nice car, like a WS-6 Firebird, or cherry condition, low milage Suburban, or clean Ford Explorer with a strong drivetrain being traded in and "wasted" as a clunker.....I'd yell at the car's owner if I thought it was wrong, wasteful and bad for America and it's economy......I'd stand outside dealerships and rage at the people coming in to trade their "great" cars as clunkers......

    not self-righteously whining and screaming on the internet about how evil the government or specific politicians are for coming up with it.

    Better yet, I'd realize that for every one clunker traded in and "wasted", there's more than a thousand still out there available to me and everyone else as a used car or source of parts, and not freak out, make a big deal, and spew fear and hate over a horrible problem or evil conspiracy that doesn't even really exist.
     
  2. comrick317

    comrick317 Banned

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    Wow, - don't hold back on us. I still say a whole generation of cars will be lost as silly as you may find it- in these silly trade ins, emission testing, the fact that they are lame looking in design (most models but not all), fear that they pollute too much and should go to the bone yard etc, etc, etc. And that is my opinion, thank you very much.
     
  3. Bum's_Steer

    Bum's_Steer Member

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    Well, if your definition of "lost" is ending up in salvage yards, you might be right,.....but that wasn't the point.

    One of the biggest complaints about the program was it was "destroying" and wasting perfectly good used parts that could be re-used (recycled) for other cars.

    If, as you say, this "generation" of cars is lost from age, emissions, unpopular design, etc. and end up in the junkyard, according to those who think the parts should be available to re-use, that generation of cars is, in fact, not lost...... the ones no longer on the road still serve a pupose, they are still in use and available as parts sources.

    What was being insinuated on here by some was that the clunker program was going to be the cause of an entire generation of cars being lost (un-usable, even as parts sources)

    I simply pointed out that this is not true. There's still millions of cars from the "clunker" era available, on the road and in salvage yards with parts readily available.

    The simple FACT is, the clunker program will actually have little or no significant effect on the availbility of used cars and parts from that "generation"
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  4. comrick317

    comrick317 Banned

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    Well i guess i have to agree with you on that. Now bare in mind i DO NOT have all the facts here as i am only reading what is being discussed on this thread while up here in Canada we have a program that is some what the same but not nearly as aggressive. The clunkers here just go to the bone yard as far as i know you can still buy them or their parts. I'm just worried this program will get out of hand. But yes there is millions of older cars out there and for what i can see (after seeing the numbers) this program will hardly make a dent. It at first seemed to me that the powers that be were working up to trying to remove all older cars regardless of condition. The numbers that you listed says otherwise, i hope your right.
     
  5. Duck Tape Mav.

    Duck Tape Mav. ready to pick up the 4-dr

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    I think the news stated that they were estimating around 2 percent of the "clunkers on the roads were turned in during this program? i could've heard wrong. it was in the break room with people chatting, and i was trying to finish my food before going back out on the line. but i believe thats what they said. someone correct me if im wrong please.
     
  6. Bum's_Steer

    Bum's_Steer Member

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    Well, considering how many of the hundreds of millions of cars sold between 1984 and 2001, and the percentage of those that have already been used up, wrecked, relegated to junkyards, and of those parted out and crushed for scrap, 2% of "those still on the road" doesn't sound unreasonable or unrealistic, though, if the context of what you heard was boasting of the clunker program's "success", it may be a little over-estimated.....

    2% isn't going to put used car dealers and salvage yard owners out of business, or even really affect their profits, and it's not going to have much, if any effect on the availability of used cars or their parts.

    Don't get me wrong...I'm against most all clunker/crusher programs because politicians from both sides will put in some destruction and no re-use clause in them at the behest of their corporate contributors, like the big car manufacturers who benefit and profit from permanently disabling old cars and parts, in fact, in most cases, that's THE main purpose of a clunker/crusher to begin with, no matter what they tell us, and neither political party is innocent of it.

    But I'm also a realist.

    Alot of people who would not normally be able to afford/buy a new car have been able to because of this program, dealers who'd normally laugh at an old car trade-in and offer little, if anything for it, were given the ability to take normally "worthless" cars they couldn't resell and give $3,500-$4,500 for them toward the purchase of a new car. It did stimulate the economy, and it did boost much needed new car sales.

    Alot? Maybe, maybe not, but definately a lot more than any of the exaggerated and mis-informed negatives and falsehoods screamed against it....and face it, most the mis-information and falshoods people were told and over-reacted to and spread were created specifically for political attack more than any real concern about the actual faults and/or benefits of the program or for the good of the economy and the American people.

    In this case, the good part of the program did some good, and the bad part did very little, if any real damage.


    When it comes to government, that's a success! LOL


    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  7. Jsarnold

    Jsarnold Senior Member

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  8. comrick317

    comrick317 Banned

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    Thank God our Mavericks and Comets are so old.
     
  9. Jamie Miles

    Jamie Miles the road warrior

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    I wish I had the energy right now to sit here and address this point for point, but I don't and I'm not going to bother. The vehicles themselves are but a small portion of my issues with the program. The rest are beyond the scope of this board.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  10. 1973Maverick357

    1973Maverick357 Cooler then a Camaro

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    Can you break down the ENTIRE health care plan for us to?
     
  11. Jamie Miles

    Jamie Miles the road warrior

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    Man, I don't now about you guys, but it gets me all warm and fuzzy knowing about all the thousands of people who wouldn't normally be able to buy a brand new car (when a used one would suffice just fine), who were able to do so on my dime thanks to good old uncle sam!
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
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