6cyl > 8cyl = same C4?

Discussion in 'Transmissions' started by 1slow7t, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. 1slow7t

    1slow7t Member

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    Are C4s the same in original 6 cyl cars, as in cars w/V8s? My 6 cyl/70 has a C4, don't know if original tho, but I'm planning to drop in a 302. Sadly, I've learn from this site, that a 4.6 would be too much ha$$le to swap in.:( The tranny is working fine, at least for now, but it will be rebuilt if needed, and this brings another question. How difficult is to rebuilt a C4? I've done engine rebuilds in 4 & v8 engines, ricers turbo conversions, rear end pinion gear swaps, which include back lash/pinion depth & pinion bearing preload adjustments, everything electrical in cars, but I've never rebuilt an auto tranny. Is there a proven video, or manual, that really works in that matter? Thanks.
     
  2. 19BlacK77

    19BlacK77 Member

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    It depends on which 6cyl your car has. A 200 cid. and below 6cyl C4 bellhousing is smaller but the 250 and 300 cid. 6's C4s will bolt right up to a 302. I'm sure that someone on here can give you some better info on what will work and the differences between the different C4's.
     
  3. don graham

    don graham MCG State Rep

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    the c-4's arent too bad to rebuild. get yourself a book on ford tranny's from most shops that carry auto books. the smaller motor c-4's have a different bellhousing. i use whatever c-4's i find. i just have them rebuilt and they work fine.:)
     
  4. eddie1975

    eddie1975 Windsor Specialist

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    just make sure you get a 70-up C4 cause thats a 26 spline and 69-down is 24 spline much weaker


    c4 is straight forward , i think there was a video on ebay on how to rebuild and im sure there is a book or 2 on them
     
  5. Jamie Miles

    Jamie Miles the road warrior

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    If your car has a 170 or 200, you will have to find a bell housing from a 250/302 car. The transmission itself will be fine, but I doubt it would last long in stock form unless you rebuild it to V8 specs.
     
  6. Old Guy

    Old Guy Member

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    From your info, I think you would have no problem rebuilding one. They are pretty simple. The bell housings must also fit the flex plate you use. Small 157 tooth or the large 164 tooth. This will also affect the converter bolt pattern too. Either the large or small bell will bolt to any case fill. Most pan fills, use a bell of the same size but bolts to the trans case itself instead of the pump as on the case fill style. Haynes Ford Transmission book is a good one to use, as long as you have some micrometers, dial indicator and some sort of press or big c clamp vise grips to get the clutch pistons compressed, you are capable of doing it. The manual explains all this very well with pic's. Might try and pick up a core tranny for cheap, to practice on and see what the internals look like. Also need to watch for the smaller engine cars that used 3 disc clutch packs. Four in some and the ideal one is with five. All are identified by a code tag or looking inside at tear down. Give it a try, you will like it.
     
  7. 1slow7t

    1slow7t Member

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    Thanks all for the fast replies. For now I understand that there are a couple of types/designs of C4s, ones better than others, but if I want to use mine, I just need to replace the bell housing with the correct one? This if I have a 200ci or less engine. I'm looking at an engine/tranny combo from a 69 Mercury Cougar, but wanted to know if I could skip the trans. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Slk70

    Slk70 Member

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    I just went through this exact same excercise. It was actually better and cheaper for me to buy a V-8 C4. Having them close together, I can see that the input shaft on the V8 is a lot thicker and stronger. I'm sure I could have used the tranny from the six, but finding a bellhousing was a big hassle for me. It was better to just get an 8 tranny cheaper and have all the correct parts inside as well.

    This brings me to another Q. Do we use the same accelerator linkage or does this need to be modified.
     
  9. PaulS

    PaulS Member extrordiare

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    Although the bell housing on a 250 six is the same as the V8 the insides are different. The C4 that is factory built for the six cylinder has fewer clutches than in the C4 built for the V8. It can be converted but you may need to get the five clutch Forward drum and the four clutch Direct drum. You may also want to get the governor for the V8. There are ways to install more clutches in drums but to get the most clutches in them you will want to start with the drum that is made to hold more. After 1971 the input shafts are all the same on all C4s. Get the Haynes Ford Automatic Transmission overhaul techbook and / or the manual that is sold at the transmission parts houses. There is a video but I have never seen it so I can't evaluate it for you. There are some special tools that are needed to do the job right. a piston spring compressor is one tool that you need to replace the clutch apply piston seals. A seal installer is very helpful but not absolutely necessary. To check clearances you will need a good set of feeler gages and a dial indicator with a magnetic base or an attachment that fixes it to measure the end play in the input shaft and front pack. The rest is done with standard hand tools. Rebuilding a C4 is not difficult if you can follow directions and have some level of mechanical aptitude and are detail oriented. Read the manual over a couple of times before you start and then follow it as you go. measure all your clearances and thicknesses of thrust washers and lock rings as you disassemble it and you will know what you need to get it all back together correctly the first time. I would recommend that you install a TransGo -2 kit in your valve body to make shure that everything works correctly after your rebuild. I am happy to help when I can and I will share that it is easier to answer questions when you are tearing it apart or assembling it than it is to figure out what went wrong after you install it. You can contact me off list at:
    paulstephens2(AT)comcast(DOT)net
    Just put "tranny help" in the subject line so I know you are not spam.
     
  10. 1slow7t

    1slow7t Member

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    Thanks Paul, think I'll end up looking for a V8 C4 in fair operating conditions, & possibly rebuilt it myself. I really want to do that! As for what you mention about the tools, I have everything except the " piston spring compressor tool". Do you know where to get one, or a pic of one? One that's not too expensive, it may not get too much use. I'm kinda detail oriented, as my friends call me a maniac, in car related matters, but all end up bringing their cars to me, to get things done the right way.:D Check my 68 Camaro SS finished project. I did most of the work, except body work, which was done by my good friend Pedro, and 50% of the interiors. Thanks. http://home.coqui.net/borench
     
  11. Slk70

    Slk70 Member

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    1slow7t,
    This was the same thing I did. I found it easier to just get one that was built for an 8 and I am happy I did. The components on the inside are entirely different. You will have a sense of assurance as well. I started looking into this with the same intentions as you are and found that I did not want to be bothered with all the little knick knacks involved to make the I6 tranny work. As a result, I have two of them now that I more than likely will never use again.

    They are for sale.

    Rich
     
  12. PaulS

    PaulS Member extrordiare

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    Slk70,
    All you need to make those 6 cylinder trannys work are two clutch drums with pistons, a governor, a good master rebuild kit and a decent Front servo and cover. The bands are the same and all of the other internal parts are the same too. $150 for all of it. The parts to bring it up to V8 specs is about the same price as a V8 core transmission - $50 - $75. Some times you can find cores and sometimes you can't when you can't then it makes sense to make the 6-Cylinder transmission into the right one. I do it all the time.
     
  13. MaverickEsquire

    MaverickEsquire Member

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    Going to revive this thread....

    I was just about to purchase the Bad Shoe video and order a rebuild kit and was searching the forums for recommendations on which kit to buy.

    Original 250 I6 transmission - fresh 302 dropped in. Reading this thread makes me think there's not simply a "kit" I can buy for turning the 250 C4 into a 302 C4. Is that the case? Or does a V8 C4 kit simply drop in the replace the 250 I6 C4 components?

    Thanks guys - first tranny build but really want to do the rebuild myself rather than buy one
     
  14. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

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    If tag reads PEE-xxx it's same as V8, the 200 PEB-xxx trans have less clutches.
     
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  15. MaverickEsquire

    MaverickEsquire Member

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    Thanks - I'll check in a bit and update here either way
     

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