Coming along nicely

Hey ya'll, I've been kinda quiet because I've been pretty busy. As some may remember, I was planning to attempt the I-6 to V-8 swap. Well, I took the plunge, and started it. It's kinda long, but here's what I have so far.

302 ci bored 40 over, with flat-top pistons
Summit cam - can't remember what duration, but it's above stock!
All new bearings
Chrome-moly piston rings
new high volume oil pump
new front sump oil pan
ported-polished-shaved heads (there's a story here- I got took!)
new gaskets
new distributer
headers (thanks Mr. Raney)
New alt
new P/S pump
All new hoses and belts
new two barrel ( 4bbl intake and carb to follow)
Holly blue electric fuel pump
electric fan
custom radiator and 180 degree thermostat

And a whole lot of new parts -- I'll go so far as to say that everything in and under the car is new with at least a one year warranty. Except the trans. which will be replaced as soon as this one goes. I guess I'm the only guy with a 31 year old car that has a 1 year warranty right?:confused: (The motor's also painted pretty and pink! Alright I'm kidding, it's blue, it's very, very blue!

Anyway, I'm very excited and will be relieved to finish. (This cost WAAAAAYYYY more than I'd expected! ) But I'm thinking taht by going ahead and doing it the RIGHT way now, I'll have a good car that will run like a scalded dog. Very soon I will convert to discs and 5 lug rear, so I'm not done yet. I have pics though, and I'll post as soon as I get them developed. Sorry it's so long, but I'm very excited. Thanks to all of you whose advice made it possible. Give me feedback on whether it sounds OK to you old pros out there, because I know that I'm still learning every time I raise the hood. Thanks ya'll, Preston

 

sounds cool (it would be better to keep the six but still cool ) can you post some pics ?

 

WTG Country! Sounds like you're moving right along.

One thing. I would think twice about the high-volume oil pump. Typcially, those push too much oil to the top side of the engine. It can cause starvation of the pump and leave your lower components without any protection (especially being front sump).

A stock oil pump is fine (although my engine builder put a high-PRESSURE pump in mine).

Don't take my word for it, talk to a 'real' mechanic. A lot of the guys on this board can correct or agree with me.

Any comments guys?


Keep up the good work, Country.

Rick

 

I agree with Rick about the oil pump, only run a high volume pump with a high volume pan. Also it takes more power to turn the hv pump and the stock pump drive shaft doesn't like that. For a street engine it's not necessary. If your engine rpm increases, the pump speed increases and pumps more oil anyway.

 

Uhh-oh

So are we talking a major problem if I use one? Because I've already got it installed. Will it burn up the engine, or are you saying that it will work, it just wasn't neccessary? A little worried here . Somebody help, Preston

 

I saw something recently about a shop blaming an engine failure on a high volume pump. It's enough to make me not use one...

 

Do you have a high volume pan? As rpm's increase these things move a lot of oil to the top of the engine, sometimes faster than the oil can drain back down to the pan. Then it starts sucking air. Bearings don't like being lubricated with air.

 

HV pumps only suck the pan dry if clearances are loose inside the engine. If everything's tight, you won't have any problems. I've run a HV pump on everything (except the 393....which self-destructed) I've built and had no problems, even put one in a stock 460 with stock 5 qt (plus filter) pan once, had no oiling problems even though everyone told me that it would not work. It eventually broke a ring on a couple cylinders from excessive heat/junk pistons and got replaced with another 460..with another HV pump. Oil pressure is something you don't want to have to worry about. Also, if you use a Melling pump, the hardened drive shaft comes with the pump usually...use it. Either that or get a 4340 Chrome-moly shaft from Milodon or FRPP. Just something to remember as well, don't rev the engine when it's cold as the cold thick oil doesn't pump well...and the HV pump will try to pump just as much as it would hot oil, and this puts a trememdous stress on the distributor gear, camshaft gear, timing chain, and pump shaft. I don't think you'll have any problems. Looks like everything's coming along nicely for you. The engine combo looks good!

 

out of all the motors we've built my dad swears by the high volume pump, never had any problems with them, all of the motors we built were just for street use though, one was for towing in a 3/4 ton truck, and the others were in a 302 in a car and a 350 in a chevy chevelle we restored a bunch of years ago.. personally i wouldn't build one without a hv pump. if its a matter of hp id trade a few horses for some longevity in my motor.. anyone had any first hand experience with these problems? i would like to hear the horror stories..

 

I've had problems, that's why I mentioned it above. Ran a hv Mellings pump on my street 302 w/ main and rod bearing clearances on the tight side but within spec. With 3.89:1 rear at 70 mph on the highway engine rpm = almost 4000. Within a short time the oil gage needle would flicker, sucking air. Changed to a stock-type TRW pump and the problem went away. HV pumps are fine but you should have the extra volume afforded by a large capacity pan to support them. Ford did a strange thing when they designed the oiling system on the small blocks. The oil goes from the pump/filter to the #1 main bearing. The clearance of this bearing has a big effect on the pressure seen by the rest of the engine. Then the oil is directed to the cam and lifters where some of the oil from the lifters gets shot out the rocker arms. What's left then goes to the rest of the main and rod bearings. These bearings at the end of the path can be starved if too much oil leaves through the rocker arms (path of least resistance). That's one reason some race engines have restriction plugs in the upper oil gallery to the lifters.

 

Agreed, which is why I suggested a High PRESSURE - not High VOLUME oil pump.

Again, I'm only going by what seems to be the norm for what performance (drag racing) engine builders use in my tiny area of the world.

'Luck,

Rick

 

Most racer won't use a HV pump because it robs horse power and unless you have a 351C or M (they need help oiling) you don't need it. Stick with a new standard pump.

As always just my 02.

Bossmav

 

I have always used a high pressure pump as piece of mind but I really doubt if a little teeny tiny engine like a 302 would REALLY need one .

You have more of a chance of draining the pan with windage then you would a high volume pump .

 

I don't see why you guys are making him paranoid about this oil pump thing. Boss 302s came from the factory with a high volume pump & Ford came out with a tech bulletin stating that an updated dipstick was available & to fill the oil pan with an additional quart of oil if your car was driven at sustained high RPMs. In normal everyday driving, he shoudn't have a problem, even if he stomps on it once in a while. I've always used high volume pumps with a chromoly drive without a problem. Add oil if you experience oil pressure fluctuation. Usually a half a quart will do it, but I doubt you'll ever see it.

 

Whew!!!!!

Thanks to everyone for the oil pump comments, and thanks gsjohnson for giving me some relief. I feel better now knowing that it won't burn up just because of the oil pump. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Now then........ What about the rest of the set-up? Does it sound pretty decent to ya'll? This will be my college car, so I didn't want to go really radical (YET) But I still want the car to be respectable. Will this combo be fairly quick? Is anyone running a similar set-up? Can anyone give a ballpark figure of what to expect power-wise and time-wise? Questions, questions, questons.......... Thanks ya'll. Country (Preston)