I’m gearing up to implant a 1989 5.0 HO into my ’71 Maverick. I know there are a couple of you out there who have done this and I was hoping to get some input from you. GOAL: This will be a “daily driver.” Drivability is a must. I’m looking for good gas mileage so that I can still afford to drive the car years down the road. That being said, I do want respectable power. I think 350 HP at the flywheel would be adequate. CAR: ’71 Maverick, Grabber clone with AC. Power steering to be added with the engine install. Proposed driveline: AOD with 3.55 posi. Proposed engine specs: 306 displacement, 9 ½ hypereutectic pistons, 165 AFR heads, Trick flow intake and shorty headers. The 5.0 HO is new to me. I’m not sure what cam grind and if it is worth it to go with forged pistons. I do not know if I will need to upgrade the injectors. Also, I’m trying to figure out if it is worth it to upgrade to the Trick Flow components now or wait until I get the car up and running and then explore the intake upgrades to get it to 350 HP. Right now, I have an A9P ECU, and, as I understand, I would need to reprogram the ECU in order to use the upgraded intake. So, those of you who have done it, what do you think? Where did you mount your ECU? What did you use for a trany mount? What would you have done differently on your car? Thanks,
what are you thinking "good gas mileage" is with...350 HP A/C...P.S...AOD? I had the same motor build w/600 CFM. carb. AOD...3:55s had one of...71golds...AOD transmission mounts...
For what you're going to spend on converting the car to EFI, you're not going to save enough fuel to justify the cost over a well built engine topped with a carb. Build the motor, skip the forged pistons, use the AFR heads, use the stock HO cam. Go with 1.7 full roller rockers, top it with a high rise dual plane intake (RPM, Stealth, Ford A321,etc) top the intake with a Holley 570 Street Avenger carb, spark it with any hot electronic ignition system (I'd use a Duraspark) You will easily get 350 HP (if not more) out of this setup and the fuel mileage difference vs EFI will be maybe 1-2 mpg less, if at all.
I have 358 hp at the flywheel of my 1972 Grabber, but it took a 347 to do it. You can see the build on my website.
350hp can be done without a 347. I have an original Ford short block, factory bore 89 5.0. Trick flow 185cc heads, .510 lift cam with mild duration, single plane manifold and 600cfm carb. It does 298 hp to the wheels, so just under 350hp flywheel. But to get an EFI setup to this power it will take some more work and $$. better intake, bigger throttle body, bigger mass air, injectors, tuned for bigger injectors, fuel pump and adjustable regulator. I would just put the motor in as it is if its a daily driver. You will be surprised at the power it already has. I drive a 93 5.0 everyday and its prety much stock, 215hp, and its plenty fast for daily use. Unless you want to spend hours and hours figuring out wiring I would reccomend getting an aftermarket harness made to retrofit an old car. Ive don eit the other way on a Bronco and it sucked. Frank, 71gold, sells an AOD crossmember if you didnt get his hint. I used a factory mav floor shifter to operate my AOD, just takes some tweaking on the linkage.
I agree completely too.. 350 horse is a piece of cake with combo's similar to the ones mentioned above. I see tons of these daily driver "bolt on cars" all over the streets nearly every weekend in the summers and many run really decent for daily drivers. Key is to not go overboard on the cams .050 duration to keep good low speed torque/response.. especially with a slushbox. Most of the good torquey 5.0 street setups I see are running around 230 degree cams with bigger rocker ratio(lift).. but keep in mind that the auto cars need a better converter to stay snappy off the line. A tighter LSA number on the cam will also give you a stronger low to mid rpm torque spread too without squashing the top end too bad. Plus.. you get a more agressive idle out of the deal too! lol Performance-wise I've had really good luck with comp cams off the shelf extreme energy roller-type lobes on more than 5 motors now(including my recently detuned 500 horse 385 chev) but you need good stout valve springs since the lobes ramp rates are aggressive by design(more area under the lift curve) and higher than stock rocker ratios only axxaggerate that effect. Plus.. those heads and intake combo can be tuned for gobs of torque at very small throttle angles which is the big trick with gaining mileage on carb'd motors. This is where efi has it easy with its on the fly logging/tuning capabilities of both fuel and spark.. but time is money and it sure gets pricy to chase perfect tunes. You can tune in a bunch of torque and efficiency at the specified cruising rpm while barely cracking the throttle when you get the jets/bleeds/timing pretty close to right. You'll surely want to leverage an adjustable vacuum pot on the disty to get that extra timing boost at cruising rpm too. So, with a decent lean cruise set up on such a light car with moderate gear and an overdrive.. it should be easy enough to get 20-23 mpg on flatter runs. Maybe more if you spend the extra time tuning for most efficient cruise rpm. My vote goes to: forged pistons(I'd also go get 10-1 compression while you're at it here if torque/efficiency is key) AFR's high-rise dual plane 600 Holley will give better power/600 Edelbrock better fuel mileage due to difference in primary venturie size/signal strength. mid 220'ish duration roller cam/full 1.7 roller rockers Then add good free flowing long tube headers to a mandrel bent exhaust with straight through type mufflers(quiter chambered types will soften the motor all around). If you want torque to be optimized for low to mid rpm.. run a 2.5 inch collector type header. 3 inch collectors will undoubtedly kill some off idle torque and response on such a little motor and should be avoided if possible. Depending on where you end up with cam choice and other parasitic losses.. a well tuned balanced drivetrain like yours should end up around 270-300 rwhp.
I could get 26mpg in my EFI 5.0, AOD, 3.73 geared T-Bird, weighs 3550 without driver, still has all it's power options incl seats and mirrors... No dyno sheet but it's run 13.11@ 105 at 3750lb with driver or approx 340Hp... Setup is Trick Flow heads & Stage 1 cam(.499/.510 lift, 221*225*@.050) Cobra intake, 24lb inj, 65mm TB, 76mm MAF, BBK shorties into a full 2.5" exhaust system, 2600 lockup stall... I ran A9P or A9L PCM with the L having better street manors... Street manors mentioned, a 2600 stall isn't really enough converter for this combo, something like 3200-3500 would have been a bit more friendly... After running this combo for 10 years, it'll be replaced in favor of a carbed 331(same heads & cam as above) with a 3500 stall in a fresh AOD...
Frank, I'm currently running a 250 with a Weber two barrel. On the freeway, I'm very luckey to get 18 MPG. In the city it is worse. If I can get low 20's on the freeway, I would be happy. I have had the car for 30 years and will probably have it for 30 more, unless some idiot runs into me. So, I'm thinking of the cost down the road. Any extra milage could be a big benefit years down the road. Hit me up off line on the mount. Micahkev - at - pacbell.net
Well, the conversion cost should not be too bad. I have a complete HO motor with the intake and injectors ($300). I will use a retrofit wiring harness ($600) http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/products/classic-ford-harness I already want to replace the fuel tank ($200), so adding the return line to the tank is not a big deal. The only other cost I see is the fuel pump ($150), air intake ($150) and relocating the battery to the trunk ($75). This is if I don’t build the motor up too much and get into a new intake, computer and injectors. This is compared to having to go out and buy the carb ($300), the intake ($200), the distributor ($250) and an air cleaner ($100). Part of my desire to go FI is the drivability and the low maintenance. Now, when I drive between Reno and the Bay area, the car acts like crap when I get down there. I don’t want to play with carbs. I have a ’63 Jag with three of them and they can be a pain to sync. I’m looking more for the turn key car that I can drive anywhere, not have to screw with it every weekend and get better mileage. Plus, the thing has to pass smog every year. If that cost a few extra bucks now, I’m OK with that. Also, the AOD install is simpler with the FI set up.
Ryan, You are right in line with what I have seen. Getting to the 350 mark without going to a stroker motor should not be too bad. You also hit upon the second part of my question. I’m considering putting good internals into the motor now and run the stock fuel delivery system. If I think the power is adequate, then I can leave it alone. If I want more, then I can upgrade the delivery system and the ECU without having to pull apart the engine again to get all the benefits. This car started off as a 170 three on the tree with 279’s and the jump to the 250 C4 was a big increase. Going to a stock FI 5.0 AOD and 3.55’s might be enough but then again ….. I recently acquired a floor shifter assembly and plan to use it on the AOD. I would like to hear the details of your install. I did pull the full gear selection assembly from the donor car trans in the assumption that I could put it in the AOD and easily mate it up to the floor shifter.
You're mis-estimating costs and carbs. You can shop for a little used Holley and pay half what a new one costs, ditto for the intake. Fuel pump will run you $40 for a 35 gal/hr MrGasket electric and you need now new fuel tank. A distributor isn't going to cost more than $100 for a reman Duraspark, refitted fitted with a steel gear ($60 +$40) As for carb trouble, your Jag cannot be compared to a Holley. Not even with a 3x2 Holley setup (I know, I'm running that on my 331) Once you set a Holley, it stays set. Sure you will loose a little bit on altitude changes, but other than that, if you have carb problems, look to the ignition system. 90% of so called "carb problems" are really problems caused by the ignition. You're gonna go spend $1200 on an EFI system that's not going to deliver $1200 worth of benefits here.
I think I am dead set on the FI set up as mentioned in my other replies. I agree with the tuning issue, this is part of my hesitancy in building up the motor now verses exploring this at a later date. The other part is that I am looking at a rotisserie rebuild and don’t want to add extra grief to the timeline of getting her back on the road. You eluded to my next series of questions, torque converter stall. I’m not at all familiar with what is needed to get the proper converter. Any added info on this is welcomed. Regarding cam selection, I’m a bit lost here to. Again, I want a balance of good manners and some power. I want to be able to have the AC on at a light and not have the car stall out. Again, more suggestions are welcomed. I think with the power steering I plan to install, shorty headers are a must. I had some Clifford Research headers on the 250 and use to drag them across every speed bump. My understanding is the hyper pistons are good up to 400 HP and have better sealing characteristics over the forged. I know that the forged are lighter and reduce rotating mass but I’m not winding the motor up and the extra sealing of the hypers would be a benefit on mileage. Does 10-1 get me into having the use super gas? How does everyone feel about the AFR’s over the Trick flow? I’m a little turned off by the extra cost involved in the set up of the twisted wedge. AFR’s seem to flow better with a smaller head and no extra setup cost.
Now, I like those numbers. This is where I see the benefits of getting the internals right so that I can come back later and upgrade the fuel system to achieve the extra power if I want it. I think I have to use the A9P because it is the version for the AOD. I think the tune is close to the A9L. With all those changes, did you have to chip it? My understanding is the ECU can only handle so many changes before you have to get into a custom program. With my lighter car, would the converter stall need to be 3,200-3,500?
I appreciate the input. Sorry, I don’t see the $1,200 number for the EFI. I have never owned a new car and have no desire to but, at my age, I’m getting tired of screwing with cars. The Jag took seven years to rebuild: http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1227497181 http://www.saloondata.com/cars/detail/?car=351885BW The drivability and low maintenance is a big issue. So, screwing with a used carb is not in the equation. I don’t mind the extra few dollars for peace of mind. This is why I lean towards the EFI. Also, I want the AOD and having to set up the linkage on a carbed unit verses plugging it into the ECU is another issue. I have had this old car for too long and don’t ever plan to get rid of it. My grandparents bought it new. I learned to drive sitting in my grandfathers lap in this car. It has cost me so little to drive for all these years, 180,000 miles. I don’t mind dumping some money into her to somewhat bring her up to modern levels.
