Hi all, who is running methanol and what Inc in power did you make? I'm looking at converting to an enderle throttle body this winter.
Not sure what kind of power increase we saw, but on my car it picked up right at 4 tenths in the 1/8 mile. Went from 830 gas carb to Ron's Flying Toilet on methanol. The HP increase isn't all that great, however, the throttle response and torque increase make it worth while. Are you going to use a hat style or single blade throttle valve or?
paul, that is a MYTH and has been proven wrong thousands of times!!! Do you personally have any experience with methanol injection on your own stuff? Thousands of times one would ask? 5 HP briggs go-kart engines that are used in dirt track karts. They run methanol. 5.5:1 compression or thereabouts. They run perfect and pick up a bunch of torque and power over race fuel. So did my old Tecumseh 3 HP mower...ran on methanol (6:1). And my old "lawn monster" Wizard riding mower, 12.5 HP briggs L-head (6.2:1 comp), and my old 3 wheeler (200 yamaha, 9.6:1...picked up a TON of torque and power), and an old Yamaha 350 Warrior (10:1), and our current Mustang bracket car, which picked up an honest .5 (half second) going from gas carb 830 CFM to 850 methanol carb, 306" 3.000 stroke 4.030 bore, flat tops with RPM heads (about 9.5:1). That "high compression" with methanol is a myth and there's no merit whatsoever to it. 30 years ago, maybe, but we didn't have any way to run methanol on carburetor worth anything...guys tended to just drill the jets and forget about it, and the thing wouldn't flow enough air to feed the motor anyway, much less flow enough fuel to keep up with the demands of methanol. I heard one guy blame the "old" combustion chambers, but I guarantee you that a briggs & scrapiron engine has a sorrier combustion chamber design than any automotive design....and they pick up nicely going to methanol. Not to mention the ports don't flow enough to feed 5HP in stock form, and the port design is absolutely HORRIBLE. actually it's been proven a few times that high compression diminshes the effects of methanol as far as a power increase. Some guys with really high compression have LOST power compared to gasoline due to the excessive amount of fuel, combined with a big dome, marginal port sizing and shape, and camshaft profile. I know of at least a few who have picked up 50 some horsepower going back to gas, but those are a couple cases where the engien was optimized to run gasoline and needed to be changed to run methanol. One of them changed the camshaft and got his 50 HP back when going to methanol.....and picked up another 50 HP to go along with it. The other is still stuck on gas, and it works, consistently. Both are BBC engines one is 555" the other 565" and both are over 15:1. And it doesn't by itself cause corrosion either . Another myth. 11 times out of 9, methanol is an EXCELLENT way to pick up consistency, ET, MPH. Runs cooler. Cheap. Safer in some cases. Uses more fuel, and a bit harder to start in the morning (cold..like below 40 deg), milks oil if the tune up is way is off, harder on parts due to more power output and higher cylinder pressure, and harder to get heat INTO the motor initially...but for each of the cons, there is a fix. Most of them simple fixes. I've run both. Methanol (carburetors and injection) and gas. I have not run E-85 as it's not available here...yet. Even then the price is getting up there and approaches the cost of gasoline and carries the same characteristics as methanol. In my racing program, methanol injection is THE best investment I've made. Unless someone pays me good money to go back to a gas carb, it's not going to happen. Currently running injection (1480 CFM flying toilet) and have been since about 2004. No plans on going back to carbs.
Hey mavman, I have an enderle single throttle body 4". All I need is a hi speed bypass and the three way valve. Obviously still need to sort out a base tune. Did it takemuch to get the tune right?
No sir it was REALLY easy to tune. I don't use a high speed, though. But those are easy too. Im not familiar with the high speed on your particular setup, so a quick call to Enderle will get you a baseline...and go from there. Usually the baseline is pretty close! My biggest tuning "nightmare" (if you call it that) was that I was thinking about how a gas carb works and trying to use that knowledge for making changes to injection. LOL. Took a couple races to figure out. Once I got that thought out of my head, it took about 3 passes to get it sorted out and I haven't touched it since (about 9 years ago I think). You'll love it!!
Thanks I think that's what I needed to hear. I have a boat racer friend who is pushing me to convert aswell. What's enderle's number? I can only find good vibes racing.
I am not sure. I had some injection notes from when I was tuning my system and it said "end" and then that number. I assume it is. Ron's was just below that. In fact, Ron's can probably give you a good rundown as well. They're very knowledgeable. I've worked with them on a couple methanol carbs that I was attempting to tune. Once you're off & running, you'll never EVER go back to a carburetor again
Don't need it. Not with a Ron's system anyway. Not chasing every last HP. Just bracket racing. Could pick up 1-2 mph at the most with a high speed but it's just not worth it complicating the system. Ron's stuff is designed to be used without a high speed. Most of the Hilborn and Kinsler (and waterman) systems I've messed with have all had high speeds, but those were all high-end circle track stuff that spins quite a bit more RPM than my junk does, and they're on and off the throttle a LOT more. the simplicity of the Ron's system, without a high speed or idle bypass, is awesome. Just not much to go wrong or throw consistency off. If it were mine, I'd contact Rons, Enderle, or even email Koehler injection and ask them if your system can be run without the high speed. Chances are they'll ask you a ton of questions about the engine/car/etc so be prepared. Even Kinsler might be of some help. Good people at Kinsler. And Ron's midwest office over in Indiana. I've spoken withJames and Scott @ Ron's and he's been a wonderful help even though I haven't spent much $$$ with them. James is a good racer too...think he got a few wally's last year in TD.
Yeah I will. Do you run a belt drive or cam drive? I was going to run cam drive. I have no drive part at the moment.
I run the rons love it,its so simple,fuel cell up front to belt pump,to injection,then send bypass back to cell,done,I did add the gas primer for the cold start,setup got me three tenths and three mph,and I've never made a jet change to it,running the tune ron in indiana gave me when i bought it,went to final four first time out..........jay
