need advice...I'm changing things on the motor....

Well, I've decided to take the motor apart and install a solid roller and make the car a drag only car for a few years.....I'm wondering what head gaskets I should go back with...I'll be upping the compression to about 12.25:1 and I am using head studs. I'm considering using copper head gaskets.....I'm currently using a standard graphite head gasket.....who makes the best high performance fsb head gasket...I am using a 200-250 shot of nitrous so I need a good gasket...any suggestions, ideas??

 

if you are going to run copper gaskets you should have the block machined for a o-ring and the heads machined with a receiver grove. don't know if your 347 already has the larger head bolts if not when you change over to studs make sure to increase head bolt holes in the heads to accept 1/2 studs, this is the most common failure to the 302 running giggle gas or blower is head gasket failure. also if you run copper gaskets you might have a problem sealing the water jackets, you should apply silicon with your finger, not a bead, to the block around the water jackets, both sides of the gasket and to the head, sounds extreme but it works. as far as which copper gasket is the best, someone else can jump in here, but i have found that the one you can find with the thickness you want is the best one. now i have seen people run copper without o-rings, but if you push a gasket on nos you stand a very good chance of torching the block or head or both. good luck.

 

we use the fel-pro 1011-1 or 1011-2 gaskets. No failures yet (knock on wood!). We dont believe in Nitrous and have never run it, so I dont know how they would hold up in your case. Havent tried any blowers or turbo(s) yet either. I've overheated several times, in fact dad overheated his once to over 300 degrees, but still no gasket failures. I'd suggest 1/2" head studs if you're squeezing the bottle, though. If the engine isnt built yet, it's not that hard to have it machined for 1/2" studs, just drill and tap--but make sure they're all straight. Loc-wire head gaskets are killer, but also require machining to the heads and block. The biggest killer of head gaskets is nitrous combined with too much timing and not enough fuel. Even copper will burn in that situation.

 

gaskets

Felpro makes the best ones. Make sure your fuel system is up to the NOS systems needs

 

I have a gut feeling that someday there will be crank, piston parts and rods on the strip with that much juice in your present motor.

 

Nitrous is no laughing matter

Just my opinion on the Nitrous add on, have seen some extremely fast times at the strip for cars shooting up. Have also seen these same cars, wheather Chevy, Ford or whatever, spend more time and money on repairs etc. On a typical race night to make several tnt runs and then half a dozen eliminations, the cost of filling the bottles(40.00 a pop) and all the other exspense is a bit out of my league(three to four fills for the day). Two or three fuel pumps or a good high volume one at 400.00 is also a part of the equation. Am not trying to discourage anyone from using it but you must be able to absorb all the exspense invloved also.

I guess my main gripe is having to wait in the staging area for an hour while track officials clean up piston crank and oil debris after one of the nitrous bad boys grenades an engine. On the plus side, the cars will usually fly on the stuff, if set-up right, and the show is awesome. Just last week a fellow racer with a 84 Stang with small block and nitrous( after replacing the internals for the third or fourth time this year) took this $10000 motor down a 1/8 mi track at 5.90 and 140mph. That was his first pass, second pass was 6.95 at 106mph "on his top after rolling the car 13 times". He survived this wreck with cuts and bruised ribs, swollen eyes and concussion. An outstanding roll cage saved his life. The point here is if you are going to play with fast cars and such, safety should come first, sorry to get off the head gasket subject but just had to give my thoughts on the nitrous thing. If nitous or blowers etc. is your desire , go for it and have a blast but please be careful and have a large bank account available. I think Ken is probably right on his gut feeling too.

 

well, believe me, I know the consequences of running nitrous....I've seen the front portion of a stock 302 crank spit out on to the ground....was not a pretty sight!!! But, I built this motor to handle nitrous....ie. forged steel crank, forged 4340 rods, forged pistons, main stud girdle, rocker stud girdle, head studs....so on and so forth...I've been racing with nitrous for about 8 years now....i've just never used copper head gaskets and I am now considering it...the motor has already seen a 210 shot of NOS and I'll be stepping up to a 250 shot soon....I'm going back with a solid roller cam and taking the hyd. roller out...the car has 2 fuel pumps and flows over 300 gph. at flow......the car has a full 8- point cag w/ 5 point harnesses and I always wear a helmet so I feel that I am very safe...the car has run a best time of 6.75 @ 102 mph and i felt like I was on a sunday drive, driving with one hand....I am considering having the Victor Jr. heads surfaced to get the compression up to about 12:1 or 12.5:1 so I feel that it may be time to upgrade head gaskets....so do I have to O-ring the block with copper gaskets...how important is having the block tapped for 1/2 inch head studs or should I be ok with the 7/16" head studs?? I've never had a problem using the 7/16 studs but I've also never run more then a 210 shot...? And just for everyone who is afraid of NOS...my brother bought a 88 mustang w/ 35,000 miles on it and we installed a 150 shot immediately....the car was raced every weekend and used at least one bottle a weekend and sometimes two or three for many many years....the motor lasted until it had 125,000 miles on it and then it spit the crank out....that's not bad for a stock 302!!!!!! I believe in Ford products and I love nitrous!!!!! It's a gift from God!!!!!

 

Go for it, my man.

 

I think you have a great set-up from your description, most fellows that I know don't use the o-rings and seem to work ok. Assuming you are using the head bolt bushings on the JR. heads. I also believe the 7/16 studs will handle your HP. But if you are going to have the heads done anyway put in the 1/2's just for a margin of safety. It seems maybe I ruffled your feathers on the NOS thing but my "old" theory is a good mechanic can build an engine to run the same HP without all that plumbing and such. Alchohol motors put out much more for the cost than any other fuel used and are easier on the componets. I don't run it now but the future looks like Turbo and Everclear for the 302. At 62 might not have time to get that all done maintaining and driving a couple of cars and racing every weekend at various tracks. Are your times for 1/8th or 1/4 mi? Either one, sounds like you have the set-up right. Of course as you well know, we are never satisfied till we can get more power and speed out of our beasts. Good Luck and feed that bad boy more juice.

 

If you've run "regular" head gaskets this long, I dont see any reason to change. Plenty of people run the 1011-2's and have no problem. The only problem I see most common with that much power with a 302-based engine is the block....at about the 500 HP level, the cylinder banks tend to want to go their own ways--evident by the telltale crack down the lifter valley. It does sound like you've got all your ducks in a row...6.75 @ 102? Sounds like a helluva ride to me! I'm guessing thats the 1/8 mile time, because thats exactly what I run with the 351. I dont think I wanna go any faster right now, at least until I update the chassis/cage. After seeing pics of my buddy's mustang, I'm looking at racing a little different now. It's really a gruesome sight to see such a beautiful car roll like it did. Of course, it really wouldnt be so bad if he'd walked away unhurt. It takes a lot to knock some sense into ol' Brian, but this really did him in. He's not planning to race anytime soon, so he says. The cage saved him. Thank God for NHRA's strict rules reguarding cages. Yes, the NHRA rules are a bitch, but bite the bullet and follow them--they're not for their benefit, they're for us racers!

 

Oh, I forgot to mention that I've decided to venture into "forced" power, so I guess we'll put head gaskets and cast pistons to the test. The goal here is to be able to achieve 20 mpg and still get around 450 HP or so. Shouldnt be a problem I dont think.

 

I agree mavman...the block will definitely be tested !!!! Hopefully it will last until I can afford a 4-bolt block....Well, since i'm going with a solid roller any ideas on a good cam?? I'm running the Victor Jr's with a stage III port job. I estimate a little over 300 cfm. on the intake at .600" lift...and a little over 200 cfm. on the exhaust at .600" (conservative estimate)....I am currently running a hydraulic roller .544 Int. and .573 exhaust....w/ 238 Int. and 248 exh. duration at .050. on a 112 lobe center ( the specs here are with a 1.6 rocker, I am running a 1.72 rocker, but I have both). The cam does good to about 6200 and then it basically will not go any farther. I would like to spin the engine to about 6800 - 7000. Since this will be a drag only motor street manners are not any concern. I want the motor to do it's best on the NOS so I will probably put a little bigger cam in since the nitrous makes the motor think it's bigger. So, any suggestions for a cam out there....I have a friend who will give me some max flow #'s on my heads for around $100...is it worth it??? He said for steppped flow #'s (at all different lift's) it would be very expensive!! What do you guys think?? So this "forced" power you speak of....turbo? charger?? fill me in...!

 

oops, I forgot to ask....the current combo is a flat top piston with the 60cc Victor Jr. heads and is giving a 10.5:1 compression ration....I'd like to get it up to about 12:1......any ideas on how much I would need to surface the heads to obtain this???

 

I would suggest you go to www.houstonperformance.com, click on tech and see what there is on solid roller. There are higher grade solid rolers that go for $300 up and to change over to the better setup can cost up to $1000. Thats the price paid for more performance.

 

As far as cam selection, I would call a cam manufacturer. A word of warning though, if you're planning on spraying it, make sure you tell the tech you are talking to that you plan on using it. You will not be happy most likely with the cam you get, because normally a cam designed for nitrous use has a centerline around 114 or so--and different profile to match. It kind of makes it a dog, considering, until you hit the button, then it really shines. Also, considering that it's a 347, it will require more air than a 302 would, and you will probably need to have the heads ported to reach the 7000 rpm goal. In order to get 12.5 compression, you'd have to have the heads milled to 53cc, assuming the block is already at 0 deck and you have flat tops w/4 valve reliefs. I'd think that's around .080", could be wrong there. Mr. Merring is right about the solid rollers, they are definetly expensive, I ended up spending almost $1200 on cam, lifters, springs, retainers, locks, pushrods, and timing chain. But, they are good pieces, and have lasted a long time. Another thing to consider, at this power level, it would be a good idea to tear it down at least once a year for an inspection. You probalby would get away without, but if something wasnt right, it'd be an expensive learning experience.