Question for the painters

Discussion in 'Cosmetic' started by yellow75, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. yellow75

    yellow75 MCCI Oregon State Rep Supporting Member

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    I am really liking the newer Ford black paint with all the different metallic colors in it just a prism of colors, I believe some other makes have the same metallic in it as well. I imagine this is not a paint job a novice could do due to tiger stripping and modelling and perhaps the cost and availability of the paint.

    Any advice on doing a paint job like that
     
    Wilbur Green likes this.
  2. bayareamav2

    bayareamav2 Member

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    Are you planning on doing the bodywork and paint yourself?
    You mention Black metallic... That means perfect bodywork or your wasting your time on a paint job.

    Getting the paint is no problem, any paint supply place should be able to mix it if you have the paint code. There is no "ford paint " they get their stuff from paint manufacturers and its readily available to repair shops.

    As far as stripping goes... I don't have any problems since I use a quality gun and know how to adjust the pressure and spray pattern. Spraying metallics takes a little practice but it's not rocket surgery.

    If you can do the bodywork and can paint the jambs you can save a lot of money by having a pro shop spray just the outside. Laying down metallics is critical but so is laying down the clear coat.
     
  3. kansasGRABBER

    kansasGRABBER Member

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    2x What bay Mav said. With anything black once you know you have your bodywork PERFECT prime and block it again then you might be close. But, black is one of the easier colors to shoot.
    Find the color code for the color you want and talk to a local shop and see if it is a 2 stage or 3 stage color. That will help determine if you want to tackle it yourself.
     
  4. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    slick sand could be your next best friend...:yup:
     
  5. rotorr22

    rotorr22 Member

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    The wife's 2010 Fusion has the black you are referring to. Lots of sparkle in the sunlight. I think it is called "Panther Black Metallic".
     
  6. kansasGRABBER

    kansasGRABBER Member

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    What is the color code? It will be in the driver's door jam on the sticker. Usually 3-4 letters. Example. Pnt- PJ7
     
  7. rotorr22

    rotorr22 Member

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    According to sources on the web, all of these codes are the same color.

    019, JAYAWWA, JAYC, JAYCWWA, PB, UE, XSC2851
     
  8. kansasGRABBER

    kansasGRABBER Member

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    I just looked PB is green the rest are panther black. It is a 2 stage so not to bad to shoot
     
  9. groberts101

    groberts101 Member

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    Striping and mottling is the biggest issue you'll run into here. Crosshatching your spray patterns on final coat/s and using a slightly slower reducer to give you more work time on each panel is the key to making it look nice and consistent in the sun.

    Also, you want TONS of light from every direction in the work area or you'll be spraying one more basecoat after the sunlight finds the flaws you couldn't see in the booth. Walk around the entire job for final coat inspection with a halogen light after it's all flashed out too. always good to do a practice panel before committing to a full mix and sprayout.
     
  10. Mavman72

    Mavman72 Gone backwards but lookin' forward

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    Surface prep is also important...Final sand before sealer/paint should be finer 600 to 800 grit for fine metallics. This keeps the metal flake from ending up in the sanding scratches which is a big reason for uneven flake distribution in the finish...You also want a tight/small aircap/needle (1.4 mm) to aid atomization. This keeps the flake in uniform suspension, giveing you a uniform finish to decrease the chance for mottled flake.
     
  11. groberts101

    groberts101 Member

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    I don;t want to start any controversy here but I will make a few blanket statements.

    Every paint gun is different. No 2 guns are exactly the same, as no 2 painters are exactly the same. Every gun has something that will be a little different than another. The final material viscosity can make a large difference in the spray pattern/edge layout. Every painter's technique will be different in some way from the next guys. One gun may spray metallics just fine with a 1.4 tip, while another may not atomize as well and require a 1.2 to be used as a crutch. Everything affects everything and you do not want to underestimate the impact even small changes can make. Just keep in mind that material flow will be reduced as tip size goes down, slightly different temp reducers may be required to adjust work times and material viscosity.

    That being said, the adjustments listed by the gun manufacturer, paint manufacturer, or another user are just for reference. They are just a starting point to be used for baseline tuning. You may need to make minor adjustments to get the spray pattern that matches your technique, and the material being sprayed at that time. Even the ambient temps make large difference and reducers/techniques/tip sizes need to be adjusted to match.

    It is also HIGHLY recommended that you spray a test panel before spraying anything that is valuable. Consistency in mixes, ambient temps, and techniques are extremely critical to the final product and overall cost. More expensive paints are also generally less time consuming and more painter friendly too.

    As far as grits go. Using too fine a grit can cause the basecoat to have adhesion issues in real world environments that dialy driver/weekend/seasonal toys would be exposed to. There is always a tradeoff somewhere. Any shop I've ever worked at or seen doing production work(not to say the final results weren't outstanding, requiring no cutting at all only fluff-n-buff's, when a decent product(Glasurit or other) and excellent spray-tech were involved) will rarely ever go beyond 400 for higher-end 2 stage metallics. The tradeoffs and potential for callbacks just aren't worth it. Thicker single stages(which are rarely even used these days except for penny pinchers and tractor painters) can go down to 320 grit and never cause an issue. Show car only?.. that's great!.. go ahead and sand away with that 800 or even 2,000 grit. But do NOT expect that coating to hold up as well to rock chips and the inevitable delamination/peelback that would result from the subsequent reduction in mechanical bonding. If the primer/sealer starts to shine?.. you've gone too far. Scratch an X in a show cars paint job and then do a tape test for adhesion. You WILL see a loss in durability.

    Also in line with the above comments.. keep in mind that there are two types of bonds to consider with any coatings, automotive or otherwise. Chemical(also construed and advertised by some as "molecular") and mechanical. Using mismatched components can cost you much more time due to inter-coat adhesion issues, or worse.. flat out incompatibility, which must be overcome with mechanical means.. or sometimes even complete sands/reseals. Read the mfgrs recommendations and use a complete and comprehensive system of fully tested products from start to finish for best results. It is initially more expensive but ends up being cheap insurance and causes far less headaches in the long term.

    IMHO, do the best you can to get uniform flake dispersion(toughest part)/color layout(fairly easy with black) and plan on some extra MIL's in clear-coat costs so you have plenty coverage over the base to cut and polish to give you that show car mirror finish if you so desire. Also gives you more protection and material to work with for detailing in the years to come too. Spending too much time and energy sanding below that final clear-coat can cost you more than you may know or realize right now. Elbow grease pays bigger dividends for final gloss after the final clear-coat is cured. The rest just gets buried anyways.
     
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