Anyone running a Terminator/Toilet Mechanical Fuel Injection setup in a Mav? I'm seriously considering it for next season, but, even with the M2 install, engine compartment real estate for a front mounted fuel cell is kinda limited. Any suggestions, or maybe even pics? Thanks for any help!
There is a yellow Falcon that races w/ the Pro Stick group here on the east coast,8 stack fuel injection set up.Car runs mid 8 sec qtr mi times,very fast car.Their last race of the season is in Petersburg Va this wknd,check out MotorManiaTV.com,they may show the race Sat.
I have run a ron's toilet/four shooter on my car. We put a dragster fuel cell where the battery was located. We had to cut out the battery apron and make a small kick out toward the fender. I am running a stock radiator so you may be limited if your running a wider radiator. I still have full turning radius on mine but it is really close if you are turned full lock left. I'm running a Holley red pump for a primer pump that is mounted just below the cell on the apron. It is a tight fit with a 302 in the car but everything fits. I don't seem to have any engine compartment pictures to post but could probably get some of the fuel cell setup. We run the mechanical fuel injection on all of our cars. It has worked great on everything from my 12 second 289 to my dads top dragster car. Matt
Thanks Matt! I sent you a PM. I had been looking at the area you're talking about for mounting the fuel cell, but I run an alternator in the factory location, and was just concerned with having a line issue sometime and spraying the alternator with fuel lol. I don't think I can re-locate the alternator to the other side because of the electric water pump...haven't confirmed that...but for some reason, I think I've checked that before. I'll have to check on that further. I'm also still looking to run E85, so not planning on the Primer Plus yet. If I change to straight alcohol later, or it proves to be an issue on the E85, I'll for sure make that leap. That small fuel cell would be pretty easy to locate. I'm not really looking to speed the car up much, even though they tell me it will...I'm looking for the consistency I've seen from the systems. Mine already runs cooler with the E85, so that's not an issue either. Car is already consistent, but with some of the big money bracket races I've ventured to, with a lot of time between runs, I'd like the car to be more predictable. James Monroe and Scott Offerman are also fairly local to us, and run a lot of the same tracks we do, so they're available for live tech support if needed! lol Thanks for your help on this...and any other feedback is appreciated!
I don't run an alternator on mine so that is definitely something to look at. i have never heard of anyone using E85 with it but I would think anything is possible. I would think James would be a good person to talk to for that type of setup to see what you need. Compared to gas I feel like alcohol is more consistent with weather changes and day to day on multi day races and with big weather changes. I have never run any E85 but I think it is similar in that it is more consistent that race gas. 351Blueblood, we do not do any street driving with any of our cars. With a 5 gallon cell and using 1-2 gallons of fuel per pass depending on the application we would not get very far even if we tried. Matt
Thanks Matt. I've talked to both James and Scott about the E85, and they said it will most definitely work fine. They have others using it as well. My thing with the E85 is 2 fold...one is that I run some heads up classes every once in a while, and even though the car doesn't have to be icensed or insured, they say it has to run "pump gas". So far, I've successfully argued that my E85, that I actually purchase from multiple gas stations from a pump. is closer to "pump gas" than the racing fuel most of the other guys are running. They don't like it...but it's hard to argue lol. The second reason for sticking with the E85 is that I pass 2 stations that sell it every day on my way to and from work, and they're open 24 hrs a day! It's hard to beat that convenience. I don't have to buy it in drum quantity, and my combo is already set up for it. I'll figure out something for sure...just looking for ideas and suggestions. Thanks for the input!
We (all 3 of us) run a toilet. Methanol. I've ventured out into trying M5, like it, but the fumes are killer. Lost a round because of the fumes, and went back to regular Methanol. E85 will work with the toilet or any other mechanical injection for that matter. So will gasoline but we will leave that out of this discussion. Meth injection should pick you up about a tenth over carb/E85. Meth is more consistent, once it's set up right. Some guys cuss the toilet/terminator setup and sell them off. Luckily, guys like me will pick up those used systems dirt cheap and tune them with success. My cell is mounted under the fender, left side. Could've put it in the right side, or put a small flat cell in front of the radiator. Lot of options there. I like the cell's outlet to be higher than the pump's inlet so that the pump doesn't have to work quite as hard. IMO, the engine starts easier set up like that. Starting injected methanol engines can be a bear if you don't have a "system" of doing it that works, and stick to it. Mine, and dad's, pull the shutoff valve and leave it until ready to start it. 'Course we all use a primer plus..... If you have the means, get the primer plus system. No milking of the oil. Cuts methanol usage in half (or less) and the engine will warm up a LOT faster. Idle around the pits on gas. Burnout and race on methanol, drive back to the trailer on gas. Engine also starts immediately as opposed to being naturally flooded when the lines siphon from sitting in the lanes, or having to crank it when there is no fuel in the motor, like, say after sitting a few hours. The only downside to it is that it'll require another fuel cell, or use your existing rear-mounted cell. I'm not sure I'd want to use the toilet without the primer plus now that I've had one for a while. Then lastly, if you don't have any experience with injection, you need to totally forget what you know about a gas carb. Injection is kind of backwards, but so simple that it's REALLY easy to over-think it! Leaner=bigger pill. Richer=smaller pill. Once you get the nozzle jets in the ballpark, tune for best consistency with the pill size. The way I set the barrel valve is to start the engine, let it warm up to about 140° or so. I call it operating temperature. Then "whack" the throttle as quick as you can to wide open. If it stumbles, richen up the barrel valve by turning the turnbuckle so that the links get closer together. A little at a time, like one or two wrench flats at a time. Then whack it again. Once the stumble goes away, richen it about 2 or 3 more flats and lock it down. Remember that if you make a big pill change, that your barrel valve setting will change a little. It will take some time to get used to the tuning, but once you figure it out, and learn not to over-think it, it is really, REALLY simple. Once you start winning races with it, you'll wonder why you didn't switch a long time ago. I think there might be a few pics of my engine bay over on DRR. One of the more interesting things that happened was at a local track, some guys were walking around the pit area gawking at the cars, and I had just come back in and pulled the hood. Guy saw the toilet on top and asked me what kind of carb it was. I told him it was a one barrel. The toilet, at least for me, footbraking, has been one of the better investments I've made in the program. Lot of guys like the terminator, and they are awesome as well, however, they are better suited for those using a SLE, or a throttle stop. I use neither and I like the almost instant throttle response of having a big single throttle valve. It's simpler. Which is good for me. I like simple.
Thanks Todd...I'll do a search for those and see what I can find. Real Estate for the fuel cell is my only concern at this point. Definitely going injected..just a toss up right now on mechanical, or EFI with a Holley Dominator based system. With being race only oriented, I'm definitely leaning towards mechanical.
I agree with methanol,I saw Andy Walker at the Legends race at Budds Creek.He told me he switched over to it & his car runs better & is more consistent.Fox bodied 408w w/ a G-Force 5 spd,used to turn 8.8s & now he is getting the job done at 8.65 & 157mph with a sheet metal intake & a Pro System SV1 carb.
I have a 532 CI on 112 race fuel right now. My winter plans goin on right now is changing from an Eldelbrock RPM Head to a TFS street head and Ron's terminator with primer plus system. I already have a flying toilet on my small block car (78 Mustang II 363 CI SBF-dart block dart heads). Best ET's thus far: Maverick=5.71 @120.......Hope to improve to low 5.50's maybe high 40's if I'm lucky lol. Mustang II=5.85 @116
Attached are pics of the engines! 1978 Mustang II 363 CI with Ron's flying toilet-Alky Injected 1972 Maverick 532CI-1050 gas 112-soon to be Ron's Terminator
