Ok yall I'm startin this thread outside of The Build thread cuz I'm sure I'm gonna get alot of input and thats what I want. I've been doing ALOT of research on Motors for the car, Big Block vs. Small block etc etc. Big or Small block to produce 750 hp and have a reliable motor I don't see how you can spend less than 10 grand from top to bottom. That said, I found an engine builder in North Carolina that has a Ford small block that ran in a Busch series Nascar last season that he will guarantee to pull 750 hp on the dyno, minimum. Basic specs are, SVO 4 bolt main block billet crankshaft, internally balanced Yates coated aluminum rods JE forged aluminium pistons Titanuim valves Yates C3 heads fully CNC ported, Flow 410 cfm in 325 out Custom grind roller cam Jesel roller rockers Custom carb to match setup, 930 cfm Dry sump oil system Danny Bee double roller timing gears and chain, er ( noisy?) wth is that? Compression 12.5 to 1 ,110 oct.minimum race fuel only And a bunch of other little peripheral stuff Totally torn down and freshened, reassembled, catalogued, blueprinted and dynoed. Total cost...10,500.00 I've checked this guy out and he has a pretty impressive operation. IF I go this route I've got to go up and he wants me to see the engine disassembled so I know exactly whats going in it and he's gonna catalog everything, I give him half then...when I go to get it, it will be on the dyno for me to see the final testing and tuning. He said he would even put together some short video clips of the build for me. So what do yall think?
Rick, Rick, Rick. I can't believe you have to ask. What are you nuts? Sounds good to me.bananamanbananaman However, in my opinion, you'd be better off with a big block. Those NASCAR/Busch enignes are 358 ci and spin up to 9400 RPM to make their power. I just believe that a big block that makes the same horsepower with less RPM and less compression will me more reliable and consistent on the track. Again, my opinion.
I assume that the engine will be cammed for a drag race application rather than a Busch application. The Busch engines make HP at high RPM's, I would think the torque curve is quite a bit different also.
Rick, like above have stated. And I am asking. Is anything being done different for the motor vs a busch series engine. 2 different animals with 2 different outcomes. If this is a standard build for a busch series engine, then I am afraid you will not be satisfied. Obviously, the engine builder needs to know your needs. The price of the engine does sound fair. I have been talking to the guy who builds my engines and he has quoted me around 8 grand for a bigblock of the same basic hp. Note, my car will see street use also. This thread will get into the small block vs big block issue on its own, I wont go there. Heads and cam on your engine are key. I do look for good info on this topic... good post and am eager to here what the masses and more qualified engine builders have to say on this. Dan
Hence the custom grind cam they would do along with some other work to the heads...he explained that in the Busch cars they typically redline at 9500 rpm...torque would be around 600 ft lbs at 5200 rpms, I beleive that was what was on the spec sheet, it's at the office so I'm going from memory? Terry the problem with BB is expense and weight...to do a BB with comparable components your lookin at 20-25 grand...at least. He said doin this build from scratch with NEW parts would cost upwards of 40 grand The yates C-3 heads fully CNC'ed run 8 grand new, but they are now obsolete as the D-3's will be in the cars next season. Agreed Dan, he is vey much aware of what I need my peak HP and torque range to be in...he asked alot of questions to know exactly what I expect from the engine and thats why I'll be there for the final dyno pulls.
One other thing I just thunk of, those 351 blocks for the NASCAR crowd, have smaller main journals than "normal" blocks. Since I don't know, how well will that work in a drag engine? Some of you "spearienced" fellers might can answer that one.
Okay. I'm going crazy (more so wise guys). I got an e-mail that Rick Book had posted here and I don't see it.
"rayzorsharp]Hmmm, I saw Ricks post just fine Hawk...maybe you really ARE losing it. " terry buddy, i saw the post also...
Nascar engine is a great engine, and will live practically forever. I wasn't aware that they used aluminum rods, though....'course I've been hiding from the whole circle track thing for a while now. When I say it will last nearly forever, it would likely need to be taken apart every xx number of passes at the drag strip to check clearances, bearings, etc. One thing about aluminum rods is that they will stretch over time and those extreme RPMs don't help any. You never know when an aluminum rod is going to let go. Also, the powerband on one of those beasts is from about 7000-9500, so you'll need one helluva converter if you choose an automatic, or you'll need the best driveline components you can buy in order to keep the motor in its peak power area with a standard. 7000+RPM launches with a row-your-own won't last forever. I'd say that a Lenco would be the best bet in an application like that. IMO, it's a steal at that price, but I would change the camshaft to a little milder profile and add a few cubic inches. They're "only" 358 inches as mentioned and that's one reason they're so high strung. If you were able to open 'er up to about 410" it's help drastically. The heads on those things are awesome, but they are lazy....er...dead at low lift and low speeds. Once it starts to rev, they are THE heads to have. A lot of the high-end drag racers around here will buy the big port versions of the C3L heads and send them to Keith Craft and have them welded/epoxied and ported to work with a drag motor. I have a friend that has gone as fast as 5.03/147 in a 3000 lb Mustang on spray with that setup. The potential is there for sure, but just plopping in a regular NASCAR motor isn't going to do a whole lot unless you can keep it above 7000 RPM constantly. They're designed to run 9400 RPM all day long and clutch dumps and shifts aren't easy on them. I say big block. No substitute for cubic inches. 800+ HP with a 557 is easily attainable, and probably would be a quicker combo in a drag car, even though they weigh nearly 1/2 ton coupled to a transmission. Set the car up right and it doesn't matter how much it weighs. Heck even a 514 is a sweet motor...and shouldn't need any more than 7000 RPM to make awesome power and torque, and have that torque from 2500-6500. Those BBF's are HUGELY underestimated and can make awesome power with minimal effort. Same with a 351W...but either way, at 750 HP, it's going to cost the same whether it's a big or small block after it's all said and done. One thing I forgot to mention is that after you put aftermarket aluminum heads and intake on a 460 based engine, it won't weigh much more than a iron 351w. Ford used to advertise their CJ al. heads at 90 lbs lighter than iron, and the factory intake weighs about 80 lbs alone...aftermarket is probably 20-30 lbs, so the weight difference isn't that great. Add light pistons and there's another 15-20 lbs off. Did you see the articles on Jon Kasse and the Engine Masters Challenge? Might be worth a look. The new SCJ heads are supposedly worth 50-100 HP more than the old CJ aluminum heads...and they kicked butt themselves. Heck a new 514 crate motor is very reliable and fairly inexpensive for 700+ HP. I don't know what they rate them at, but you can bet your behind that they're 40-60 HP more than what they advertise them. Ford has always done that with their crate motors.
Here's a site http://www.strokerengine.com that I've been looking at. I've e-mailed back and forth with the owner. Anybody have experience with place or heard anything - good or bad.
I'm so confused... but seriously...I need to talk to the guy about stroking it out to a 408, easily done with an SVO block I'm sure, running a close second behind HP is the reliability aspect, thats what headed me in the Nascar direction to start with. I really would like to put a BB in it but I want forged components in it and some serious porting done on the heads...thats getting into the serious money Whatever I do...I just want it done right.
