Borgeson steering upgrade in process!

Discussion in 'Technical' started by mojo, May 7, 2015.

  1. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    IIRC lock-lock is 3.5 turns. I have 3.8 & 3.5 caster, 205-70*14 tires, no rubbing of valance. My car may sit a little higher at wheel openings. Lookin at ur avatar, that seems to be the case. Another thing I didn't like about the SPC arms, the tower bolts are not pressed into the arm like the stocks. Working by myself, I had to tape bolt heads to arm to keep bolts from backing out while I try put the nuts on the engine side of tower.
     
  2. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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  3. modmav

    modmav Member

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    I am running 15" wheels with the 14 gives you plenty room. You have plenty caster that's what I am shooting for. the pic I seen the cross shaft is machined for the bolt heads to hold them, sometimes I wished I had 4 arms 10 inch fingers eyes in my ass since I to do most everything by myself
     
  4. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    Two 1/8 shims sandwiched under front bolt of ur stock arms will give u about same caster as I have, if all your wanting is increased caster. This approach is a lot less expensive and lot less work.
     
  5. modmav

    modmav Member

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    you know I have pondered that thought. have you tried it. so what you are suggesting is it takes a 1/4" out on front bolt to equal a 3 degree gain in caster but the question I asked myself is how well the cross shaft will mate against the shock tower surface but actually I only need to gain another 2 degrees or even 1.5. I should run that by my alignment guy
     
  6. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    What I am saying- each 1/8" shim equal about 1 deg. of caster in my case. The rest is gained adjusting strut rods.
    Prior to adding the shims I had abt 1.5 and 1.8, car was still tracking poorly. I had initial concerns too, about adding shims, why I got the SPC arms. After the arms did not work out, went to the shims I was advised to do from the start by member " Krazy Comet", on the forum who are far more knowledgeable about this subject. Wish I had taken that advice -- initially would have saved me lot of trouble.
    So far, it has worked out in my case. If I need anymore caster I will go w/ aftermarket strut rods and maybe LCA's w/ heim joints at chassis mount point. As it stands now, not looking to do any of that. At the end of this post is a link he forwarded assisting me w/ this issue.

    I have put about 600 miles w/ this setup and no issues. After consulting the alignment man; If you don't feel comfortable using shims, than the aftermarket might be the best bet.
    At point 17:45 min is where shim install starts if ur not interested in the entire video.
     
  7. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    Update on the conversion! Finally got this thing going in the right direction. The fix seems to be adding the Borg shim kit to the PS GM Gen. I pump. After struggling w/ the setup for 3 years, finally able to drive at 70 mph; before that, it was a hair raising exercise. I got the heads-up from Cometized "forum member" of the shim kit sold by Borg.
    Thanks Chip - for the help. Chip installed a simliar setup on a recent build -- he has a serpentine setup, w/ Gen II pump, whereas, I have old school V setup.
    The Gen. I pump came from Borg. w/ 2 shims installed; the kit came w/ 5 shims to use what may be needed to get/reduce pressure thus reducing steering sensitivity. As of now, I have total 5 shims in the pump, made big difference in way the car drives. I think, I am going to install the last 2 cuz I think it can be still improved.
    The only thing I notice; crosswinds seem to have negative effect on tracking. I will say, it had that effect w/ the OE PS setup - just seems a little more noticeable now. I am wondering if others w/ OE/PS see this as an issue.
    SAM_0640.JPG
     
  8. COMETIZED

    COMETIZED Member

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    Hi Mojo:
    Glad to hear you're working out that steering problem. Are you going to be able to meet up Champaign, Illinois this
    HRPT in June next month.? Just curious . I'll give you a ' heads up' when I know which date. I'd like to meet you in person. Alex will be driving the Maverick too . Maybe we can spend a little time together in a 'Cracker Barrel ' for Lunch or Dinner .. Depends on WHEN we get out of the Run that day . We could work it out later.
    Cometized
    (Chip)
     
  9. markso125

    markso125 Member

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    The pressure difference would explain why I have never experienced the problems with my Borgeson setup that you have, I am running a serpentine setup with the ford power steering pump out of a 1990 mustang and I have not had any problems other then getting the wrong box sent too me initially. Its awesome to hear that you got yours worked out, happy Mavericking
     
  10. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    I was wondering why I have all the issues the few of us w/ the Borg system, did not experience. You/we are running different setups. The pumps you and Chip running must have much less pressure to begin with.
    How much caster are you running? Glad to see you back on the forum -- wondering where you went?
     
  11. markso125

    markso125 Member

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    To reply yes the Ford power steering pumps put out less pressure then the Saginaw style power steering pumps I had the serpentine setup already when I did the borgeson I didn't want to change it to the Saginaw style.
    I did go back through my paperwork I have and I'm running 2.75 on the caster.

    As for where I went, I don't have much time for much of anything right now, between my kids, teaching, getting my CJ7 ready for july and buying some CNC mills so I can start doing machine work on the side I don't have a lot of time to lurk on the forums right now. I am around but usually I just don't say too much.
     
  12. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    Glad you posted to my thread! Family and livelihood comes before anything. I believe Borgenson could do a lot better on instructions. I have to assume they have sold hundreds, if not thousands of the setup w/ the Saginaw pumps. Through research they should install at least 4 shims in the pump and include 3 more w/ the kit. I have not had much confidence in the support line; I was told recently, adding shims will make steering harder. I have added 4 shims and can't tell any difference in steering effort. This would have saved me lots of time and grief, not to mention the limited use of the car.
    For this reason, I would be hesitant to recommend the product.
     

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