Oil

Discussion in 'General Maverick/Comet' started by SamsDad, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    2,319
    Trophy Points:
    531
    Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Chesapeake VA
    Vehicle:
    1972 Comet GT clone 306 . 1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 1988 T-Bird awaiting 331 ..
    OK, but please explain how some $$$$ botique oil is going to benefit a long ago broken in stocker 200...

    It'd be just as happy on whatever was on sale...
     
    Crazy Larry likes this.
  2. gregmaverick

    gregmaverick Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Vehicle:
    1970 maverick
    Perhaps it was a copy paste error. I think we're intelligent enough and forgiving to overlook.
    PS: did you know that the Valvoline company started out by supplying lubricants for steam engines?
     
  3. 70GreenMonster

    70GreenMonster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida
    Vehicle:
    1970 Maverick
    What my motor builder told me to use after break-in:
    Blocks cast before 1987 (flat tappet cam blocks) - use only high zinc oil like Shell Rotella-T, because of a change in the alloys used in the blocks after certain dates. The older motors need the zinc the newer oils mostly don't have.
    This 170 is from a 65 Falcon and got the Rotella-T when we built it:
    IMG_20140802_102120.jpg

    Blocks after 1987 (roller blocks) - pick your favorite, most are decent and about the same, except, don't ever use Pennsylvania oil.
    Quaker State and Pennzoil are paraffin (wax) based oil and sludge up your motor as they age. Additives are put in to overcome their sludging and get cooked out as you drive.
    I have seen this myself, Years ago I tore apart a 76 Marquis 460 that the previous owner bragged about only using QS the whole time he owned it. It looked like brownie mix stuck inside the valve covers. I have stayed away from them since.
    Southwest oils are acid based and just lose their ability to lubricate and become more like water as they age. You can hear the valves start rattling when the oil gets too thin. It sounds just like when the oil is low, but this is only when you are past due for an oil change anyway and the oil is getting old.
    Texaco Havoline and Castrol GTX were what I used before I switched to full synthetic.
    Mobil 1 is what I use in all my rides for the last 10 years.
    My 99 Explorer 5.0 motor for my Maverick will get Mobil-1 after the break-in:
    ready for heads.JPG
     
  4. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    2,319
    Trophy Points:
    531
    Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Chesapeake VA
    Vehicle:
    1972 Comet GT clone 306 . 1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 1988 T-Bird awaiting 331 ..
    So much misinformation...

    Composition of block has zero to do with whether a higher level of zinc is required... It's the roller cam that does not require higher levels of zinc... Roller blocks were introduced in 1985 for the 4-bbl carb 5.0 Stang, from that point forward all blocks were cast for roller lifters and that's whether a roller cam used or not... From '86 all the SEFI passenger cars used roller cammed engines, that includes HO Stang & LSC Lincolns as well as the mundane 150Hp 5.0 in grandma's LTD/Grand Marquis, Town Car, T-bird etc... F/E Series trucks also used these same roller blocks, but before 1992 used a flat tappet cam, so a low zinc oil may not be a good idea...

    As far as the sludge prone QS & PZ that's old news, so far out of date it isn't funny... Somewhere around 25+ years ago SOPUS(Shell Oil Products) bought both QS & PZ, today those oils today are a Shell product... That said I used nothing but PZ in my Cobra Jet back in the '70s and never had sludge issues, mostly depended if it was changed at regular intervals...

    Sofar as oils thinning out, doesn't happen with modern oils past probably early/mid '90s... The guys over on BITOG regularly send their used oils in for analysis, rarely does one come back out of grade due to shear...
     
    Crazy Larry and rotorr22 like this.
  5. CaptainComet

    CaptainComet Large Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    413
    Location:
    Clearwater, FL
    Vehicle:
    72 Comet
    A big change between older cars, like ours, and newer ones are internal clearances, especially bearings. Older cars run more open clearances and need a thicker oil to be able to maintain the cushion that the film of oil provides. It has to have some viscosity to it in order to stay put. Newer car have much more precise machining, and run tighter clearances. Because there is less open space, an oil film can be maintained on them with a much thinner oil. That's why you can see new cars running 5W-20 or even 0W-20 now. (EDIT - see amended statement a few posts down)

    Severe sludge used to be a thing ... first car, 1965 Mustang, bought in 1976, 90K miles. I doubt the previous owner ever spent any money on that poor car. I popped the valve covers off to track down some lifter noise. It was like a Jello Mold .... the sludge was all the way up to the top, and even had the embossed Ford script pressed into it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  6. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    26,456
    Likes Received:
    2,835
    Trophy Points:
    978
    Garage:
    1
    Location:
    MACON,GA.
    Vehicle:
    '73 Grabber
    valve clicking ...pulled the covers on a Lady's 38K 1969 396 that the oil had been changed at 3K miles all it's life w/QS.
    same thing, looked like a jello mold, couldn't even see the rockers.
     
  7. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    2,319
    Trophy Points:
    531
    Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Chesapeake VA
    Vehicle:
    1972 Comet GT clone 306 . 1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 1988 T-Bird awaiting 331 ..
    Actually clearances haven't changed all that much, dig out a shop manual for '70s and compare with a '10 model...

    It's the oils that have improved... With improved viscosity stabilization 5W-20 was adapted to improve CAFE numbers(Ford back specced it in several models to gain CAFE credits) ... Instead of using 10W-30, gives something like .5% gas mileage improvement... Average joe will never be able to tell but across 500,000 vehicles it adds up...

    My dad ran a '55 Chevy with 265 V8 all it's life on 20/20W Gulfpride oil... Traded it in at at something like 120K miles and it still ran fine, didn't use oil... Dealer asked if it only had 20K miles, pop was straight up, said no it has 120K(no I don't think he mentioned the transmission)... Problem was the Powerglide was getting iffy for second time, was time to let it go... There is no reason todays 0W-20 or 5W-20 would not have performed just as well, probably far better if one considers cold weather operation... Todays oils still has as much zinc as '50 & early '60 oils...

    BTW I would see the '55 around town for probably another 10-12 years, whoever bought it kept polished, always shined like new(no doubt garaged)...
     
  8. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    2,319
    Trophy Points:
    531
    Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Chesapeake VA
    Vehicle:
    1972 Comet GT clone 306 . 1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 1988 T-Bird awaiting 331 ..
    I honestly don't believe any HD oil could sludge up a engine in less than 40K miles... With that much sludge no doubt non-detergent oil was used...

    QS did kind of shoot themselves in foot by marketing non-detergent oils(green vs red top cans) long after most other refiners... Used to see it go out of GEX for 37 cents a quart by the cart full...
     
  9. CaptainComet

    CaptainComet Large Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    413
    Location:
    Clearwater, FL
    Vehicle:
    72 Comet
    That statement made me go back and reread an article about bearings that is in the new Hot Rod (Oct 17). Turns out that the article's focus was on modern racing engines versus what was common knowledge. One subject mentioned was that new Pro Stock cars can use an oil rated 0W-7 !!!!!! Probably pours like Kool-Aid.
     
    Krazy Comet likes this.
  10. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    2,319
    Trophy Points:
    531
    Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Chesapeake VA
    Vehicle:
    1972 Comet GT clone 306 . 1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 1988 T-Bird awaiting 331 ..
    0W-7 eh??? WOW...

    I know there are already 0W-8 & 0W-16 oils developed for new models... Those engines do have decreased clearances but usually also have wider bearing load surfaces... It's supposed to be stated not to use these oils in models not specifically designed for them...
     

Share This Page