197O Boss 302 vs Equal Performance today: How much on the Dyno?

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Maverick Dude, Aug 14, 2022.

  1. Maverick Dude

    Maverick Dude Member

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    I think it would be interesting to build an engine with the same power as a 1970 Boss 302. Depending the source of info a 1970 Mustang Boss 302 did 0 to 60 in a bit over 6 seconds and had a quarter mile ET of 14 plus seconds.

    The advertised power was 290 Gross HP. Using modern Dyno data, would 300 HP be enough to match it? I didn’t bring out the HP calculator.

    If so , there are plenty of crate engines and top end power setups that make 300-325 HP. Bringing the compression up to 9.5 in a rebuild begs for aftermarket heads, manifold, 4 bbl, cam and timing chain. Of course there are other issues such as the rear ends and the 4 speed instead of a C4 but perhaps we can ignore that for now.

    What combinations do you think would work well?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2022
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  2. Maverick Dude

    Maverick Dude Member

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    Here are some HP numbers of Ford 302 engines in Mustangs. Of course everyone knows what happened when the compression numbers started coming down and when HP was expressed as net instead of gross in 1972. It sort of seems period correct to come up with same results as if a person swapped a Boss 302 engine into a Maverick, something some Maverick owners have already done, but instead using modern components such as after market heads. Enjoy.

    5CE5863A-7DA2-461D-B296-5F89F7F1B130.png
     
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  3. BruceS

    BruceS Member

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    I had a teacher that owned a Boss 302. Very nice blue with black stripes. When I first met him I was in junior high
    We was working on lawn mower engines at the time. The guy taught me a lot. He even gave me a ride home one day with that car.

    Later came high school and guess who was my teacher? Same guy but now we was on car engines.

    His name was Bill Stringer. He taught me a lot and I'll never forget him. Because of his excellent teaching, I saved a lot of money.
     
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  4. Maverick Dude

    Maverick Dude Member

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    Here are the horsepower and torque curves.

    FD85942E-FAB2-4E9F-A6A1-2D441BD16884.jpeg
     
  5. Maverick Dude

    Maverick Dude Member

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    Here is one source of performance data.

    92A97CFA-17C8-43AD-8F30-4D79019AD163.png
     
  6. Maverick Dude

    Maverick Dude Member

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    Here is something interesting as far as making a modern day Boss 302 clone.

    95BF1C77-385C-4335-8F49-FE18545BBF4A.png
     
  7. Maverick Dude

    Maverick Dude Member

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    03C35117-14A6-466F-B04E-0FF5B87DA724.png 715B6B84-8F5E-4340-B48A-0658CF9E9924.png B9CA2263-5D7A-4EC4-86AA-A7743FC3086D.png Even a Edelbrock E Street Setup on a 9:1 compression ratio block would make over 300 HP.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
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  8. dyent

    dyent Member

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    Found this on youtube, dyno results for both 69 Boss 302 and GM DZ302...........

    David
     
  9. Jaybee

    Jaybee Member

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    Down through the years it's been car guy lore that a lot of engines were underrated from the factories. Richard Holdener got 374hp from the Boss 302 with headers, so the stories hold up in the case of the Boss and the Z28 302.

    That's still a pretty respectable number from a 302 today, and they have an incredible sound. Time marches on, though. With good aftermarket heads, the right hydraulic roller cam, and a proper match among all the parts you can now build a 302 that'll match those numbers and be significantly more streetable...and not have to deal with points and solid lifters. Step up to a 331 or 347 stroker and you'll blow it away.

    For 1969, though? The Boss 302 was a damn good engine. It earned its reputation.
     
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  10. BruceS

    BruceS Member

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    I thought I quoted this post. My bad, check the 1/4 mile run on Chevy 454 LS6 SS. Advertised as 450 hp. Not only would a Boss 302 would out run it in a quarter mile drag race but wax it on a oval track.

    The Boss 302 was rated at 290hp. This was done for buyers to save $$$ from insurance companies. Ford knew what it had. I personally think it had over 400hp.
     
  11. TeeEl

    TeeEl Member

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    Installed in what? Not a Chevelle. Run the 302 Boss in a Chevelle and a 454 in that same car, and the 454 is gonna dust it. Those BOSS 302s were installed in Mustangs and a few Cougars, which are substantially lighter than cars that had the LS-6 454. I think The BOSS 302 produced exactly what was shown in that dyno test (around 375 with headers). Ford simply advertised the horsepower and torque at a lower RPM (so not a lie), because high insurance costs would reduce sales.
    Kind'a brilliant. What insurance company is gonna measure the maximun power output of an engine?...
     
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  12. greasemonkey

    greasemonkey Burnin corn

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    A 302 with a little added compression and about any aftermarket head and small roller cam will do what the old Boss did. But the Boss had a lot of potential still to unlock. In fact a gt40 headed 302 is easily there with a Stock Boss.
     
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  13. spf1268

    spf1268 Member

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    OK - 1/4 miles times from the magazines back in the day:

    1970 Chevelle SS454 (Super Street Cars)
    450ci/450hp, 3spd auto, 3.31, 0-60 - n/a, 1/4 mile - 13.55 @ 104mph
    1970 Chevelle SS454 (Car Craft)
    454ci/450hp, 4spd, 3.55, 0-60 - n/a, 1/4 mile 13.12 @ 107.01mph
    1970 Chevelle SS454 (Car & Driver)
    454ci/450hp, 3spd auto, 3.70, 0-60 - 5.4, 1/4 mile 13.81 @ 103.80mph
    1970 Chevelle SS454 (Hot Rod)
    454ci/450hp, 4spd, 4.11, 0-60 - n/a, 1/4 mile - 13.44 @ 108.17mph

    1970 Mustang Boss 302 (Car Life)
    302ci/290hp, 4spd, 3.91, 0-60 - 6.5, 1/4 mile - 14.85 @ 96.10mph

    (Source: https://roadtests.tripod.com)

    Not seeing the Boss 302 perform anywhere near the LS6 in Auto or Stick form down the 1320.
    And the Chevelle is heavier than the Mustang to boot.
    There is no substitute for cubic inches in a straight line. At least back in the day...
    I love my Fords, but don't disrespect the LS6. Especially if you have never owned one.
     
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  14. BruceS

    BruceS Member

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    You seen to forget oval track racing. Now let's put a Boss 302 against a Boss 429 on oval track, which one wins?

    Yes I have owned a Chevelle but I would take the Mustang over it any day.
     
  15. Maverick Dude

    Maverick Dude Member

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    Additionally, the Boss 302 power level of 290 HP was at 5800 rpm. It’s entirely logical to use 5800 rpm for a street car because how many buyers were planning on running 7,000 rpm? The HP level at 5800 rpm on the dyno was 350 HP, 60 HP higher than the factory rating. Still pretty cool, so I guess the challenge is 350 HP at 5800 rpm for a Boss 302 Clone.
     
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