C4 time

Discussion in 'Parts Interchange' started by stumanchu, Dec 16, 2020.

  1. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    The C4 in my car is from a 1980 Granada that was at P&P. I pulled it out, cleaned it real good, changed the front and rear seal, and installed it with a 164T 302 flexplate because the Granada had one that size. It didnt take too long to realize the column shift linkage parts in my previously 6cyl Comet were not going to play nice with the 302 that was hanging in there when I bought it. I decided to install a Granada shift cable since the transmission was set up for that on one end, I just had to fab a bracket for the other end and attach it to the column lever under the hood. The transmission came with a coat of silver paint, and was very clean inside which made me think it might have been re-built.

    Well, it worked flawlessly for about 200 miles...then gradually developed a 2-3 flare. It also started to leak from the shift lever, speedo cable housing, and pan.....because I suck at c4 pans. I took a 2nd run at the pan, and got it to quit. More recently I put in an H servo, shift kit, shift lever seal, and green stripe modulator. The flare just feels like a flare with a shift kit....lol....a flare that didnt care....a flare that wants to toy with me and taunt me. I have also been chasing drive train vibrations since the car left my backyard for the first time, in 2016. This year I finally got my pinion angle sorted out, and the driveshaft balanced....so the vibration? It finally dawned on me to put it in N at 70 and, and, and it was soooo smooth!:slap: In the interest of preserving my engine bearings, that c4 is coming out and the TC is going away. I decided that since all the c4 rubber seals crapped on me, maybe the one on the direct drum pooped and my flare is from that? It is going to come out and get torn down. I have watched videos of guys completely tearing them apart in less than 10 minutes, so I have convinced myself I need to try it. I need to hunt down appropriate literature, drop that junkyard special out of there, and rebuild my first automatic. Roger, if you read this, your courage drives me onward sir!

    What would help me to not be stupid is some education on the millions of repair kits, kinds of clutches, bands, blah, blah. This thing basically works perfect except for the flare. I probably am feeding it about 320Hp and will not run more than street tires. Do I need red clutches? Are there clutches, kits, suppliers, and things to avoid? What determines the continued use of type F fluid?
     
  2. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    "What determines the continued use of type F fluid?"
    old style clutches need F fluid.
     
  3. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom Supporting Member

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    Any of the trans from '70s, '80s even '90 can use just about any fluid of the era. Any trans with F will shift a little harder than Dexron/Mercon. Will often extend life of dying transmission.


    Stu for your trans, likely clutches are worn, no fix but replace. Worn clutches require longer to engage causing flair before applying. Possibly limiting accumulator function would help, of course that's part of what a shift kit does.

    A C4 is probably the easiest auto trans to rebuild, back around '80, I built two using kits ordered from Sears catalogue(nope, now haven't been inside one in 40 years). For Hi-Po useage, high quality clutches/bands recommended, other than size of servo pistons, most of other parts won't make much difference.

    There are videos from Performance Transmission on youtube, that guy is good!!

     
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  4. ike72com

    ike72com Member

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    Stu! Like Tom said easy to build. Way more easier than drum brakes!

    Parts fits like a puzzle when on correctly.

    Do it man!
     
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  5. rickyracer

    rickyracer Member

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    I rebuilt mean about 20 years ago. But then it set waiting for an engine to go with for 18 years. So I took it to a local HiPo trans shop the Ford guy (RDW) recommended. He checked it and said the only thin was one of the thrust washers was a little tight and would have probably burned up. For $400 it was money well spent.
    They are easy, but sometimes leaving it to the experts is much better. Especially since it's going behind a 460.
     
  6. ike72com

    ike72com Member

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    Rebuilt and let sat for 18 yrs? You probally did a good enough job for that trans to still be running today.

    And a c6 is just a larger c4. If you do one the other is simular.

    Give yourself some credit Ricky.
     
  7. rickyracer

    rickyracer Member

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    They're like doing rearend gears. I find those easy to do. Most won't even touch them.
     

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  8. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    lol....dumb, oh.. I mean drum brakes are ok if you do them often enough to remember how to snap that junk together, but I have to re-figure how to use the tools every time. So the first side takes 90 minutes and the second side takes 15. I have a friend who used to be a Ford Mechanic 25 years ago (only found this out very recently) and he has done around 40 C4s. He will not do it because his short term memory is deteriorated enough to kill his confidence, but he has the manuals, and I will repair a bunch of sheetrock in his basement in exchange for his "supevision." I got a better shot at only one tear down if at least one of us knows something.

    Heheheheh....a trac-loc for my 8" is the next project after the trans. After that, I will be ready to try a paint job.
     
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  9. rickyracer

    rickyracer Member

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    The big thing is a dial indicator and good torque wrench that will go to 150lbs. An inch lb one is needed to set the pinion load.
     
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  10. rickyracer

    rickyracer Member

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    I use the solid spacers from Currie or other places. Never the crush ring.
     
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  11. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Nothing big to report, other than the sheetrock work is long gone and done.....and I started pulling my C4 yesterday and the next time I have time and will power, it will be out. I am starting to look forward to it.....I also met a guy through the slot car club that teaches transmission repair at a community college......and he is a Ford guy. He is new to 1/24th hardbody racing....so I can get favors by trading him slot car chassis. I let him use one of my cars in our annual Nascar extravaganza......and he did quite well for a rookie. I have been getting schooled by old timers for the last 10 years, and this last one I finally pulled out a win. Margin of victory after 64 minutes of racing? 2.5 seconds. :racingflag:
     

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  12. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Well, You should win a prize Tom. Trans was finally torn down today, and direct drum had .085 play, worn frictions, steels with blue spots, and hard rubber seal rings. The rest of the tranny looked good except all the thrust washers were fairly worn, and the shaft play was measured at .053 before teardown. The trans was out of a 1980 Granada with a 250, but it did have the drum with 1 less steel/friction than a v-8.....so am going to track down a v-8 drum. Everything is washed, covered up, and ready for assembly when parts are gathered.
     
  13. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Tranny got reassembled and installed. No leaks, shifts perfect. After fighting that thing all day on the install, my fingers were hurting a bit and I did not get 2 of my plug wires snaped on all the way and it felt like something was still out of balance. Of course I swapped out my 32 year old harmonic balancer before checking my plug wires.......so now all is smooth again and new balancer included.

    As a side note.....having all those pieces out and scattered was a bit overwhelming....if I didnt have help from someone in the know, it would have been a struggle, and R&R ing a C4 is becoming a chore that saps me. I am wondering how much longer I will be able to tolerate one of these cars with headers AND shock towers. It is a little late now, but if I ever do another one of these cars, a shock tower delete will be strongly considered.
     
  14. ike72com

    ike72com Member

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    Rinstalled and shifts perfect? Damn you,re good!
     
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  15. yellow75

    yellow75 MCCI Oregon State Rep Supporting Member

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    Great job stu , when can I bring mine to you for repair ? I have rebuilt just about everything on a car but for some reason the transmission scares me, too hard to take out again if you screw something up on the rebuild . I have tore a bad one down just to see what makes them tick and replaced valve bodies but that is it.

    Did you install a shift kit or had you done that earlier in its life
     

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