Upper Control Arms Whats You Opinion

Discussion in 'Technical' started by 74LDO, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom Supporting Member

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    No mine cam from Laurel Mountain Mustang but are exactly what's pictured
    in the Moog on line catalog and being hawked on ebay as Moog...

    Quickest way to tell at a glance is, do they have a flat boot on ball joint as orig or is it domed... Also the arm isn't reinforced & stamped for the stabilizer bar end links, uses a couple cheesy washers instead...
     
  2. John Holden

    John Holden Member

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    Have you seen them in person? How does the quality look? I looked at them on their web site and it doesn't say they're made in USA. Where did you see that?

    Also I cannot find Moog upper control arms. I don't think they make them, just the shafts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
  3. jayman

    jayman Member

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    Classic Performance Products aka CPP

    [SIZE=-1]6770TCA-UKB[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Tubular Control Arms only, Pair Black Arms, 1967-70 $309[/SIZE]

    http://www.classicperform.com/NewProducts/2006/NewFiles/NovaSubFrame.htm

    These are tubular uppers that are 3/8" shorter than stock. This helps with the camber curve and gets your lower control arm back into the center of the adjustment range.

    $309 per pair in either Silver or Black powder coat.

    Not as cheap as Dormans, not as expensive as Total Control.

    Combine these with a set of roller spring perches and a good set of shocks. You won't believe how much better the car drives just by getting smoothly rotating upper pivots and no spring perch bind. Much better control on washboard roads like we have here in California. (And you thought the gravel roads where you live were hard on suspensions. Hah!)
     
  4. John Holden

    John Holden Member

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    How will the 3/8" shorter arm effect a street car that's set up for mostly drag racing? My front end alignment will be set to give the least rolling resistance.
     
  5. lm14

    lm14 Member

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    3/8" shorter uppers will really mess with camber on lift it you ask me.

    SPark
     
  6. jayman

    jayman Member

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    Most of our cars have the lower control arms moved all the way out to try and get to stock alignment specs. The 3/8" shorter arm is just enough shorter to get the pivot point of the lower arm moved back in near to the inner edge of the alignment slot. You then have the option of adjusting for more camber without running out of adjustment range.

    As for what happens when the front lifts, it will do pretty much what it would do with stock upper control arms. It is on compression that you see a couple of degrees more camber.

    These uppers are not that much different from stock as far as the motion curves are concerned. If you notice anything at all, you would see that the tire was slightly more vertical at full droop than with stock arms and a couple of degrees more camber at full compression. Insignificant at speed or while driving normally.

    The reason CPP made them shorter was to allow a slightly better camber curve without reinventing the wheel. The shorter arm also allows you to use alignment shims on the front bolt to get a batter caster setting for higher speed stability. This is very beneficial if your are running 120mph or faster in the quarter as the car tends want to return to center at speed rather than becoming "twitchy" like what happens when you don't have enough caster.
     
  7. Acornridgeman

    Acornridgeman MCCI Wisconsin State Rep Moderator Supporting Member

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    Yes I have had them in my hands before, at Iola, and they where very nice. Heavy duty and finished in 2 tone black and argent. They were pricey at about $100 each. And yes, THEY USE TO BE made in USA.

    In checking the catalog, they no longer state USA so I'm skeptical now. I have an email into customer service right now asking where they are made. As soon as I have a reply I will post what they say.

    :)
     
  8. Dave B

    Dave B I like Mavericks!

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    I've always been under the impression, from reading on other forums, that CCP is knock off parts, usually made overseas. Do you actually have these control arms? are they serviceable? :hmmm:
     
  9. MSmithPDX

    MSmithPDX Member

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    Hey Jayman,

    Would you be willing to list out the parts you would use for that?
     
  10. John Holden

    John Holden Member

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    I just got off of the phone with girl at Scott Drake. Very disappointing to say the least. She refused to tell me the actual manufacturer or the country the parts are made in and stated that it's proprietary information. I told her I thought it was illegal to not tell the consumer the country it is made in and she said it was legal.
     
  11. MSmithPDX

    MSmithPDX Member

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    There are no laws requiring country of origin be placed on any manufactured part, unless it is covered by ITAR which mostly relates to military stuff.

    Basically, you should have told her not revealing country of manufacturer is a very good way of getting no one to buy you crappy parts anymore.
     
  12. John Holden

    John Holden Member

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    That's very surprising since almost everything you buy has a label on it that says "Made in ____". I would think that it's required because these companies could probably save millions of dollars a year by simply eliminating those labels.
     
  13. jayman

    jayman Member

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    CPP manufactures a wide variety of stock replacement as well as innovative new products. I don't know for sure where any specific part is made, however, I do know that many of their parts are designed and tested in California.

    I do not have these control arms installed on my Maverick yet. I am waiting for the money to buy them. I have made and installed the roller spring perches. Big improvement with just these installed.

    I have installed these upper control arms on a 68 Mustang as part of a stock suspension upgrade. I drove the car when it came in with the sloppy, worn out stock suspension and also after we installed the new parts. We used the CPP upper control arms , a set of roller spring perches that we assembled out of a new set of perches and a conversion kit from DazeCars (http://dazed.home.bresnan.net/opentracker). We used stock replacement coil springs and Koni GR2 shocks. The lower control arms were stock replacements. The strut rods were stock with rubber bushings. We also replaces inner and outer tie rod ends and the idler arm.

    A normal stock parts rebuild does wonders for these old cars. However, the roller spring perch and the smoothly rotating upper shaft greatly improve the speed that the suspension can move which really improves the ability of the tires to stay in contact with the road over bumps and potholes.

    I have also driven the car fairly extensively since the install. That is what convinced me to purchase those UCA's for my car. I have driven cars with TPC, Control Freak and Global West suspensions as well. All perform similarly when using just the uppers with otherwise stock components. Global West uses Del-a-lum bushings requiring regular greasing. 1000 - 1500 miles. Control Freak uses Prothane bushings which squeaked after less than 3000 miles on the car I am familiar with. I had no complaints with the TCP parts on any of the cars I have driven with them installed. All of these uppers work as advertised and I know people using each of them who are quite happy.

    The CPP parts are 1/2 the cost of any of those upper control arms and about twice the cost of stock parts. I don't have access to anyone who has more than about 3000 miles on the CPP arms so I don't know about long term issues.

    CPP's website offers information about their control arms at:
    http://www.classicperform.com/NewProducts/2006/NewFiles/TubularArms.htm






    The cross shaft is captive and cannot be removed. I do not know whether the plastic sleeve is replaceable.

    http://www.classicperform.com/NewProducts/2006/6267TCA-UK-Large.jpg
     
  14. dyent

    dyent Member

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    Opentracker Racing uses these same Scott Drake uppers for his Standard Upper Control Arm kits, he told me that these are now made overseas, but of much better material than OEM. He found that the steel on the Scott Drakes where much stronger and perfect for the upgrades he does, also his units are legal for vintage racing.......
    Contact John if you have any questions about the quality of the Scott Drakes upper control arms, I currently have his Standard Upper Control Arms, check out his site for info on what he does to these arms and others. Like what Acornridgeman wrote, these are high quality Heavy Duty Replacements, fit and finish excellent!
    www.opentrackerracingproducts.com

    Another option are Global West Suspension newly released Mustang Plus 3 Tubular Upper Control Arms that have 3 degrees of positive caster built into them. part number MNR-733 must drill new location holes or
    OEM replacement part number MST-733 mounts into stock location, but just have to enlarge hole to 9/16".
    I actually talked to them yesterday about these arms........
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  15. Acornridgeman

    Acornridgeman MCCI Wisconsin State Rep Moderator Supporting Member

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    Now don't all jump on the phone and call Scott Drake up - I said I was looking into it and would get you an answer ...... which I did ....... :thumbs2:

    I spoke right with the man in charge of these things at Scott Drake. Very nice guy and as of a month ago, he is a fellow Maverick owner, having picked up a yellow 1971 Grabber. His name is Paul.

    Paul told me that the control arms are no longer made in USA. In fact, no upper control arms from any of the companies are made in the USA anymore. They have all switched to overseas. The Drake ones are made in Taiwan. He also said the Drake control arms are very high quality yet and are made of heavy duty steel just as before.

    I talked to him for a bit about Maverick parts and invited him to join the forum now that he is a Maverick owner. I hope he joins - it would be nice to have a Maverick guy at Drake ............. :tiphat:
     

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