Im going to have to either replace or rebuild/ beef up my trans here in the near future to accommodate the new found HP my new motor is going to have (somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000hp) so Im starting to think about what s the best option. and olrodder I would strongly consider your trans shop since your trans has lasted so long currently I have a c4 thats been rebuilt and has a 2500 stall converter in it. it was built with 500HP in mind. I built the trans mission first I know its the wrong order but I never intended to go more than that. the fact that it wouldnt go into gear made it so it had to be done first. I would really like not to have to modify my trans tunnel as Im no expert in the fabricating section. I could come up with something cheesy and bolt it down but I want everything to be NICE when its all done. (the idea is a very aggressive but comfortable street style car not a fully stripped strictly race built drag car) I want the best of both worlds race and comfort on the street Ive watched just about every episode of pinks and pass time and see alot of guys that have a reversed valve body in their trans where it shifts backwards and Im wondering whats the benefit to that if any? ( I think it would screw me up ) so please all of you guys that race on any level chime in on this and let me know what you have and why you went with what you have. Im considering a c6 option rather than a c4 oh and I want to stay with an automatic.
A C-6 will require floorpan/tunnle mods to fit. Reverse manual valve bodies allow you to pull the shifter towards you (Floor shift that is) As opposed to away from you (Like a normal floor mounted shifter) Makes it more difficult to miss a gear and is more a natural movement for the human body/brain... I have an Aod in my Sprint with a shift kit. It could use a better torque converter...
I went the C6 route, partially because I'm cheap and didnt want to pay for a c4 built to hold what I was going to throw at it,along with all the related parts that I'd need to accomodate it (not a small block). 1 grand versus 3 1/2 to 4 was enuf for me to decide. also went for a transbrake reverse valve body,....seemed like the best option to try and break more stuff.
Well.................I'm not making 1000hp but I am using a Powerglide with loose 5000rpm stall. Originally the trans was built by Mike's transmission in Lancaster and that's where I took to have it refreshened................it's an older VascoGlide..............http://www.mikestransmission.com/catalogsitepg2.html So, why do I use a Powerglide.................my Maverick is drag only car and you are in the drag racing section.....................a 2 spd is usually more consistant than a 3spd, and the Powerglide is less complicated than a C4/C6 and has about the same parasitic loss as a C4. If you have an SFI case for the Powerglide it is about the same weight as the C4............................if you are going to use this on the street.....................I'd use a 3spd.................but something to hold 1kHP isn't going to be cheap.......................just to refreshen my Vasco it was (labor & Parts) $2400.......................but Mike has made a number of Super Vasco's that have held more than 2000hp.....................and mine went 11 years without any rebuild or refreshen............................so, it just depends on how deep your pockets are and what you want.................IMHO
I know no one wants to cut a hole in their floorboard but it is really not that hard.You put a stick shift in your car and you will have more fun.I hate automatics,they are killing drag racing,because they are boring to watch.Everyone says they are not as consistent,B.S.,go to these 2 web sites.Classic Gear Jammers and Ozark Mountain Super Shifters,these guys can drive and will be within 2 hundths. of a second every time.As Andy Walker has on the back of his car,real race cars have 3 pedals 5.66@127mph last year at Dinwiddie Va. in the 1/8.If you can drive,a stick will out run an automatic just about every time.
For what it is worth, the guy that dyno'd and helped me tune my mav has made several of the fastest mustangs. He was the first to get into 9 seconds or something like that with a new mustang. Anyway, he uses lots of turbo, and always uses a C4. So, that has got to say "something" about the lowly C4. Google Richard Lelsz C4 or visit his site. http://strictlypro.com/about_us.php
I'm not a young guy like you are, so...................yes I agree 4/5/6spds are fun to drive and race....................I race SCCA with a 5spd car..........and some guys have always preferred sticks over automatics............I've always been an automatic guy........for drag racing anyway. I've been drag racing for over 40 years and my first car was an SS/IA..............last car was an SS/BA car. Automatics were popular back in my day and I don't think they've killed drag racing in the last 40+ years................and automatics are reliable/consistent/ and require a lot less maintenance that a 4spd/clutch/flywheel setup....................My Vasco Glide was built in 1991..........drag raced until 2011 and never opened once, just changed trans fluid/filter on a regular basis. My car certainly isn't a 5.6's car in the 1/8 but did do 6.18..........and 9.80's in the 1/4. Show me a 4spd that has lasted that long with minor maintenance. Don't get me wrong, when my Maverick ran B/SM in the late 70's it had a Boss 302/4spd and was quick..........................but next Wednesday I'm having knee surgery and if I had a stick I wouldn't be out racing until most of the season is over.....................Everyone has their preference and mine has always been an automatic...................but I love 4/5/6spds too.
I know its going to be EXPENSIVE but then again every thing else has been expensive throughout the whole build so I dont care. all I care is the shop that builds it will let me bring them a fist full of money every week until its paid for then once its built it has got to hold up and stay together for years I had my c4 rebuilt once a couple of years ago and it cost me $1850 through a place called shift management incorporated (SMI) . I thought it was expensive but very fair since it included removal and install I just dropped the car off and picked it up a couple of weeks later I expect to prolly spend double that this time I try not to think about what things cost too much. I just try to figure out what one part at a time will cost me then I throw payments at it each week and when I have a really good week and have extra money I pay a little more that week. then when thats all paid off I start chipping away at something else on the build list. like this week I paid the last $600 on my AFR heads now its time to start chipping away at the super charger kit. when I start adding it all up and realize how much money I can remember spending I
if this was a dedicated drag car then the choice would be easy. a fully built power glide. but you say you want it streetable. a power glide is still streetable but you will have some compromise. you need to balance the torque converter stall speed and size to get the performance you seek and to not have one that is so lose that it will heat up burn up the transmission when you are street driving. a huge trans cooler is essential. if you want a stick shift you will have a hard time finding one that can truly stand up to 1000 hp that is planted to the ground. you will want a dual disk clutch. most of the streetable stick transmissions max out at around 600 to 800 ft/lbs of torque. you can go with a lenco but they really dont work that well on the street. a built c4 can work also. it will cost more than a power glide to build one that is comparably as strong. you will want to use a sfi approved case and bellhousing for what ever trans you choose. both for being legal on a track and for the your personal safety. they also are stiffer so they will last longer. to get years of use with out having to have an auto rebuild behind that power level is a long shot. 1000 hp is no joke. i would find the best local trans builder their is and i would use one of the high end converter company's like continental to get you the right converter for your car.
I am using a built c4. I blew up my old one in the parking lot of my Dad's restaurant(showing off) and heard about a fairly local guy that could build one for a decent price and could withstand 500+ horsepower, so I went for it.
No offense to Olerodder, or anyone else, but I just cant bring it upon myself to put a GM trans in a Ford, but with you making 1000hp, you are going way past the capabilities of a run of the mill race c4. guys are running c4 protransmissions in 428 cj NHRA stockers, and 427 thunderbolt NHRA ss cars, the cars run in the low 10's and 9's, but they are expensive purpose built transmissions. are you going to race this car? what et's are you expecting? The reason why people run reverse pattern valve bodies is so there is no chance of going into neutral, when you pull back, the worst you can do is go into high gear. I think the c6 route is a good option, but I know that PA automatics out of PA would be a good person to call, they do make some pretty stout c4's and also do c6's. the trans they run in the new mustang CJ race cars are very stout, those car make over 1000hp and are running in the 8's, if you wander over to classracer.com you will find some good info about who does those transmissions. Duane
just my dirty penny here.. but there are plenty of guys running c4's in high powered race cars(many with heavy hitting big-blocks) that pull BIG wheelies.. so, using one in a street oriented car that doesn't hook like a full race car does.. will be easy as pie. although.. it would be alot cheaper to build a c6. you'll have 1,000 horsepower.. so who the hell cares if it saps another 40 horse out of the deal(if that.. because you'll never spin it high enough to make ahuge difference). Plus..the car will be light.. and you'll never get full traction on street tires anyways.
What Bryant said is total reality........................to put a Powerglide together to handle your 1000hp motor you are going to spend around $5k with converter and flexplate................and you will want a complete SFI case/aftermarket. I have no knowledge of anyone in the Bay Area that can put together a trans to fit your needs, and pretty sure you are going to have to go a little further away. Following Bryant's comments, I would suspect you will need a very large separate trans cooler with at least 1 high CFM fan and maybe 2.........a small one will cook your trans. I can't say about the C4, but PA could give you more info I'm sure. As Boss302 Maverick said you could also think about a C6, you may want to talk with TCI about that, they built the transmission behind my 428 CJ Mustang some 30 years ago.......................................also when you start talking to someone about building a trans they will want to know a lot of answers about how much torque/HP weight of car, tire size, gears..................on and on. Not to throw a monkey wrench into your direction but if it were my project I'd put the motor together.................put it on an engine dyno and see what you have before guessing on this information and ordering a trans only to find out it's not right for your application.................and having to spend bad money after good..................................Just my couple of cents......plus it would be the best way to break-in the motor under ideal conditions If you would need any help with a dyno just let me know as know the dyno person at Dinan. He is a very knowledgeable SBF guy and works with turbo's/blowers quite often..............plus their dyno will handle over 2000HP................he is also in charge of the dyno/tuning.................and did a pretty decent job of putting my motor on the dyno and tuning it for the short time we had. Again, this is just my opinion..............................
No offense taken Duane......................if I hadn't have bought the car this way I may have gone with a C4......................
