Like I mentioned earlier in this thread; I know vry little abt body/paint. I am of the same opinion as CarNut on using the same line of products on a project, start to finish. I have had experience w/ paint problems on some past projects .... peeling, poor adhesion and poor finish.
with all this being said...has anyone bondoed/painted over this and it didn't work... anyone have any experience with this, not just "thinking" it won't work... some swear by...por 15...I had some put on by a "pro" at a resto. shop and it peeled off. does that make it...no good...
Let me play you a scenario You have this uncompatible substrate that you sprayed under all our hard effort in body work and expense of paint and materials to save a few bucks a month,6 months, a year down the road sitting in the sun on that nice summer day that all of a sudden this uncatalized "primer" decides it wants to outgas now that it has came up to a certain temp and delaminates itself from the base metal or decides it no longer wants to hold your filler and paint if your lucky nothing may happen or you get some blisters maybe some erruptions maybe it decides to just fall off or blow off on your drive, Or maybe that errant rock kicks up off the road and chips down to the substrate and grows larger and larger because whats on top of it isnt adheared properly no big deal right? money just grows on tree's so we just wash rinse and repeat Just something to think about
so you're saying you have never had bad luck using it...you are just thinking... a friend of mine said there was a bad batch of 2k primer used and it did the same thing...now he goes straight to the...bare metal...with his filler... "Let me play you a scenario." you use it and it's the best thing since sliced bread...
Joe definitely has a very valid point there. Using uncatalyzed products under fillers, sealers, and paints can and often does lead to many issues down the road simply because the solvent outgassing, cure, and expansion rates are different between the various components which have not been extensively tested or validated by the mfgr. Of course there are numerous cases where the pro's and consumers find new.. and often better, combinations that the mfgrs eventually implement into their own product lines simply to satisfy the demand. Ever hear of primer mixed with paint? We pro painters were doing that LONG before the mfgrs made it available to the public and now that product takes up half the shelf at the home improvement stores these days. lol From what I've seen so far, that scenario is usually caused more often from incorrect mix ratios, incompatible thinners(for the sake of saving money or just using thinners that are not right for the temp/humidity in the work area). And then finally incorrect cure periods(time and space is money for a pro).. or even not applying the next coat within the rec'd window of opportunity(which basically requires the painter to move to mechanical adhesion once that window for chemical adhesion has expired).. along with improper surface prep(dust/surface contaminants/insufficient mechanical tooth). No matter what the chemical relationship/interaction between primers, putties, sealers, and topcoats.. there is really no substitute for timed application and mechanical bonding. I could end my comment there.. but that would just make me lazy. I've been painting for nearly 30 years now(toot toot) and extra time spent for increasing mechanical bonds can make even the cheapest primers, putties, sealers, and paints known to man.. stick like glue. Of course it's best to have both mechanical AND chemical bonds working hand in hand for ultimate adhesion but sometimes we just use what's spec'd by the boss and/or what the budget allows. In other words, many rely far too heavily on chemical bonds due to the extra time involved with sanding between every single coat.. and mixing and matching components will get you into trouble sometimes if we get too lazy to provide additional mechanical intercoat bonds. PS. I also agree that applying any putty over bare metal is cutting corners for the sake of time and/or money. In fact.. it wasn't even that long ago when many mfgrs reformulated their products to help with bare metal applications due to vapor barrier issues, adhesion, and mainly newer VOC laws which made them go back to the drawing board a bit to increase durability and compatibility with the other newer VOC products. The basic reality is this. If the product you are using allows you to skip a few.. or many.. of the traditional steps involved?.. you are in fact cutting corners and somethings gotta give. I'm not saying it's going to fail or the tradeoff isn't worth it on occasion.. just that nothing is really free in this world or us painters would all be using stain mixed with sealer(Minwax, etc) to finish the woodwork in custom homes. Nuff said.
Im saying i would never use it as it is being used it's a proven fact frank that uncatalized paints outgas for long periods of time. food for thought
After watching this video http://www.rustbullet.com/assets/resources/videos/flvplayer.asp?vid=H_H_Automotive_Video.flv maybe I should have done my F100 project firewall and front frame in Rust Bullet. Has anyone used the "Black Shell"? Just today I was thinking I might paint the F100 in some kind of satin black. Wonder how Rust Bullet Black Shell would look.
the products discription says that it is high gloss. And @ Frank. I see nothing about chemical curing processes relating to the use of catalysts.. and the application guidelines state the required air dry/recoat times. So, yes.. it is simply a high quality uncatalyzed paint. Gievn the fact that the application data states that humidity helps accelerate the cure times somewhat.. it appears to be some type of single component moisture cured adhesive based paint, IMO. I could tell you better what the comparison to other products would be(obviously not exactly) if I read the MSDS sheets. But not that it matters much really since the product seems decent enough in my book.. especially for the price. And my book is pretty thick considering that I use $150 per gallon high cross linked urethanes(+ catalyst) along with heavily modified(read as "overly expensive") polymers on a daily basis for my refinishing business. I've also used near $400 per gallon high build urethanes for commercial warehouse floors that see VERY heavy equipment and high abrasion so I know coatings from a fairly broad perspective. VOC.. or non-VOC friendly. I would just be happy with what you bought and applied there without feeling the need to defend your decision to use it. Anyways.. it's not like you're using it on the bottom side of an Ocean Liner or oil rig.
There doesn't appear to be any catalyst. The guy painting in the video was just wearing rubber gloves with bare arms and a respirator in an open shop with other people around. Not proof, I know, but doubt they'd show a video like that if they were using the catalysts I've used. No catalyst mentioned where Rust Bullet is offered for sale. It says "High Gloss" but the car shown in the beginning of the video doesn't look like an automotive high gloss paint. Looked more like satin. Would be good to see it in person. Amazon is selling a gallon of Rust Bullet for $130 with free shipping. Thought the reason for two coats was interesting. Maybe Black Shell could serve as the second coat. Anyway, they were very clear its intended to be used under finish coats. I've also read that mixing manufacturers is risky but I used NASON urethane over Eastwood epoxy primer with no problems ...... so far. Did scuff the epoxy before applying the color.
I just crawled all over the tech sheet pdf's on the rust bullet site... There is nor catalyst or hardener it is one-part, and they still have the nerve to call it a "polyurethane". Under "technical" I went to "how it works" and they just stated more hype with no chemical or technical info. Total BS. Only mystical mumbo jumbo and how to apply, and I quote how to "achieve wet sanding". The slop contains 25% by weight aluminum...and 40-60% "proprietary" secret ingredient. WTF,a big secret more BS. Isocyanates, and dryers.. You know, the laws of chemistry and metal rust are what they are.. And they dont want to describe anywhere on their website how IRON OXIDE (rust) gets magically halted in it's tracks, and unless I am told in a technically honest way they will never get my money. I apply the the best techniques of salt water marine shipyard methods to my cars, and that works. Steel under saltwater is about as harsh a test as you can get, right? I watched the video of "Jethro" in his overalls and his stellar crew spraying shiny silver rust bullsh*t, i mean bullit, over rusty metal all proudly and stuff 2 parts epoxy is known to be the most impermeable to water, and is 80-120 bucks per gallon kit. Ospho, a liquid phosphoric acid is 40$ per gallon, and like water in consistency. If a steel boat is in the water, water pressure is pushing against the paint trying to get at the steel! Cars have an easy life, compared to boats, even on a salted winter road. Maybe the Aluminum in the stuff is acting like zinc in a protective spray, in an anode cathode relationship? I dont see how RB is rendering rust Iron Oxide to anything inert (iron phosphate) as would Ospho. I think RB its just encapulating it, and managing the rust, not killing it. I wouldnt put two part paing over it unless I waited 3 months for it to gas off.. all the voc's.. Is Rust Bullet the 'silver bullet" of our dreams?? I thinks the fact that they won't describe any chemistry or explain it is telling. Now someone will post and say... well it works for me.. thats cool..
I'll be one of the ones that it worked for... I love it...much better than POR 15 in my book and I have used both...
I wonder why they didn't finish removing the front suspension and streering? It would have only taken a few more minutes to finish stripping the car. They covered the Mustang every where except behind the coil spring covers, steering box and under the upper shock mounts. This half-az job doesn't look good on them being a restro shop.
