Cant Get a Grip!

Discussion in 'Drag Racing' started by HarleyGA, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. HarleyGA

    HarleyGA Member

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    Thank you for the polite reply. I’m 66 years old and grew up in the era of 60 and 70 muscle cars. I have also had the pleasure of driving plenty of modern muscle especially my brothers Z06 Vette (scary beast). I raced a 67 Mustang 271 horse with many engine upgrades and 411 gears but had a good pair of slicks. She launched really well. Coming from a motorhead family my two older brothers and I put in a lot of time at KCIR (Kansas City International). One had a 65 GTO he bought new and still has and the other a 72 Z28 that he also still has. Bias tires were all we had back then and they did well on the drag strip. I am just now after retirement getting back in the hobby. Much has changed. My intention was not to say that old technology can compete with new era muscle cars but I know that when set up correctly the old stuff can to a large intent match up. I’m am not adverse to running drag radials as long as they are DOT. Traction bars are fine if you have wheel hop. I tied my springs with additional clamps forward of the rear axel. I won’t know where I’m at until I can gain more grip. I do believe that going to a slightly larger BFG T/A will not enough to get me where I need to be. Tire technology has advanced light years. I thought maybe someone hear could provide additional clues. Thanx for reading and replying.
     
  2. junrai

    junrai Member

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    Im not running the same HP as you (350ish to the wheels 3:55 gears with posi) but my car would break loose with an auto if I got on it too hard in first (auto) and start to spin around on me when I hit second that was with some cooper cobra 235-60-15s.
    well I went got a competition engineering adjustable traction bar set up for a 65 mustang and made it fit. went to a DOT LEGAL DRAG RADIAL 9.50-15 that filled my wheel well good. I also have 4 leaf springs from the same year mustang. they dont fit right theyre actually too long (the shackles are slanted backwards instead of straight down) but now I leave newer cars wondering what shade of green they want at the lights without setting on the stall.

    my car hooks up and tears out of there like it was scared of its own shadow and no more spinning around or drifting when shifting into second gear. it still spins the tire a bit shifting into second at 6500 on the street but Ive gotten to know how far it goes without spinning around


    keep us updated on what you end up doing and how well or not it works out
    IMG_20151101_084527.jpg IMG_20151114_200312.jpg IMG_20160831_190625.jpg
     
  3. HarleyGA

    HarleyGA Member

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    Great information. Thanks. Right now I'm leaning heavily towards Mickey Thompson Tire, ET Street S/S, P255/60-15, Radial, R2 Compound with 8 inch Cragar SS wheels. Lots of good reviews about incredible traction while maintaining good all around performance. Have to do some measurements to make sure they will fit. Not sure about the fronts yet. Still looking.
     
  4. groberts101

    groberts101 Member

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    Basic rules of traction are that the crappier the suspension.. the bigger and better tire you will need even at the moderate power levels mentioned here. But then most guys end up dumping cash into the suspension as an afterthought to fix spring wrap issues that will surely crop up if you really try to hook this 4 leaf car from a dig with a decent sized sticky tire.

    And you're right about tire tech. I've seen guys on the STREET pull both wheels with puny 8.5" wide rear DOT tires. But they are far from stock suspension setups too. It's all a synergistic cooperation of parts and the tire just connects it all to the pavement.

    Last thing I'll add is that Mike's right on target about proper ballast. The tail ends of these cars are way too light without a decently setup suspension. Put the battery in the right rear.. add another 50-75 lbs in that same area and match all that same amount of weight on the left rear(around 90-120 lbs) and it's a totally different animal in the first 2 gears. Won't charge as hard on the topend due to the extra weight.. but it'll be far faster in ET once it makes use of all that extra torque multiplication from those first 2 gears.
     
  5. HarleyGA

    HarleyGA Member

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    Thanks for your comments but there is nothing crappy about my suspension design nor does this car put outa modest amount of power. Any more power and you have pretty much a pure drag car or something not much fun to drive on the street. Never heard about your basic rule of traction. Great tires on a light car like the Maverick is a critical decision. Adding weight to the rear end is a no brainer and easy to do but it’s something done once everything else is done right. Tire selection is always at the top of the list. If I had done one thing different it would have been to stay with a three leaf spring so I would get better weight transfer to the rear when launching
     
  6. Mavman72

    Mavman72 Gone backwards but lookin' forward

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    Softer spring and a drag shock up front will get you the weight transfer. 425 hp /tq is a moderate figure in todays world . Think Hellcat/ZO 6/Shelby mustang...No, they don't hook well either... Listen to what's been said man. Its all truth... Gotta get used to peadling that monster!!! Gotta enjoy the smoke!!! Revel in the noise!!! And impress your friends with the ability to spin the tires at 1600 RPM...
    PS: All steel instrument panel, steel interior door panels. The whole car (Maverick) is a crumple zone. "Safe" Is the drivers state of mind behind the wheel. Not the car.Hope you find that magic balance man!!!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  7. Rick

    Rick G8I operations

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    Lots of good sugestions mentioned, most of us have already been where you are. I do find it amusing you said there is nothing crappy about your suspention but you can't get it to hook up.

    Sorry to inform you but 425hp with 3:70 gear is nothing in todays world. The fastest cars of the 60 and 70's are now considered slugs by todays standards, theres atleast 20 or more production cars today including a KIA that make over 400hp.
    Tires wont solve your problem, the problem is with your crappy suspention. Drag radials and Slicks are designed to work on preped race surfaces not on the street and could make it worse.
     
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  8. HarleyGA

    HarleyGA Member

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    The problem here is with your crappy attitude. You fail to mention that a Maverick is roughly 1000 lbs lighter than many of todays muscle cars. Never said I was out to beat a Hellcat. Why so arrogant? You have much to learn about the role of tire design and compound. Sorry if I don't take advice from someone who can be critical about a situation he doesn't fully understand.
     
  9. Rick

    Rick G8I operations

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    That's so funny, we hope you get your problem figured out. God only knows I've been there done that. Don't know much but one thing I do know is how to get a leaf spring Maverick on 275 drag radials down the 1/4 mile in the 9's

    Good luck, and have a nice day
     
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  10. mavman

    mavman Member

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    Modern era muscle cars have independent rear suspension.

    IRS DESTROYS a solid axle in the traction, handling, and comfort departments, so long as it isn't overpowered (and 425hp isn't anywhere near overpowered). Having had a Mustang SVO and then a Merkur (Merk's had IRS), the Merk was quicker, rode way better, and handled just as good as the SVO, same engine. And the Merk had a little less horsepower and 3.36 gears as opposed to the SVO's 3.73.

    Even though they are still tire frying heavy cars, they still will annihilate a stock suspension Maverick and for a lot of reasons. The new automatic transmissions are awesome. The 10 speed Mustangs are typically around .3 quicker in the 1/4 than the MT82 6 speed equipped Mustangs with the same engine. Why? Electronics for one. With traction control, torque management, among other things, the ECU can adjust the timing, throttle plate opening angles, suspension (magnaride), and even the brakes to compensate for wheel spin, and it works for the most part. I think even a new-ish 4 cylinder Mustang is going to give you a run for your money. They aren't slouches either.

    A solid axle with a locker WILL work, and can be made to work pretty good, but it's going to take some work. Tires will help. Shocks will help. But at that point, you're going to have to really look closely-and possibly modify-the OE engineer's designed front and rear suspension. It really is OLD technology, and since we know so much more nowadays, we can stand to make a big improvement. I can't tell you "how" to do it, all I can tell you is that it's possible.

    These cars are similar to the '64-'66 (probably later years too) Mustangs, thus one can do some reading on how they make them hook.
     
  11. Hotrock

    Hotrock MCCI Member Supporting Member

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    I found your description of driving the Mustang SVO and the Merkur interesting. Every driver has their own likes and dislikes.

    I also spent a good deal of time driving a Mustang SVO and a Merkur. My impression of the Merkur was that of driving a bath tub. The car just seemed to wallow during hard driving. For me the SVO was far more agile and quicker.
     
  12. HarleyGA

    HarleyGA Member

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    Thanks. I can handle late model Mustangs from a rolling start. I’m old school so I don’t think too much about modern automatic transmissions or traction controls or boxes with 80 fuses. You don’t have to know what your doing and you can’t even work on them. Just mash on the gas. I love my tee shirt that says “I built mine, you bought yours”For a car as light as a Maverick putting power to the ground is hard enough with 425hp and 425 Ft-lbs of torque. The engine was designed by Prestige Motorsports in Concord NC. They put together a number of these packages capable of running low 12s with open headers and drag radials. This conversation has drifted off track. Set aside how much power it puts out. It needs to be as safe as possible. I learned a few things from these post. Address the weakest link first. BFG T/A’s provide no traction on hard acceleration even with tire pressure reduced to 18-20 lbs. All of the tire gurus to spoke with tell me to use Mickey Thompson SS DOT drag drag radial. Next step I’m told is to add Caltrak traction bars a better rated shock absorbers.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  13. Hotrock

    Hotrock MCCI Member Supporting Member

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    You will find that drag radials as a street tire are safe only with dry conditions. If it is raining, you will have a white knuckled drive with these cars at anything above 45mph. The tires are hydroplaning at that point. Your future plans are very close to what I have installed on my Comet which is a mild street driven 302 that runs 12:50s with closed headers and drag radials. When I'm not running the drag radials I run BFGs.

    If you have not already done so, you might check out my Comet which is featured with great detail in the Garage section of this site. Just follow the link below.
     
  14. mcknight77

    mcknight77 Member

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    In late, but here's what I think. I've run Caltracs on several cars. They won't fix traction, but they will keep the car strait while the tires are spinning. That's important for safety. Once you get the car launching straight regardless of wheel spin, then you can work on tire traction, shocks, spring rates, etc.
     
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  15. HarleyGA

    HarleyGA Member

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    Thanks. Safety is my primary concern. Others have told be the same thing so the Micky Thompson tires come first then do another assessment.
     

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