I picked up a set of Cleveland 2v open chamber heads mainly to test flow and tinker with. I was shocked at what my homemade flow bench was telling me.....in stock form without even cutting back the valve, at .3 lift they were outflowing my best iron 302 heads at .6 . They are funny....best flow is from .35 to .45 and from there they go backwards. The port bias is reversed from Windsor heads. I got them to flow only a little better than stock, and the best flow is still from .35-.45 lift. Although flow increased only slightly, the amount of turbulence and noise in the port went way down. "But Stu, they are open chamber junk. What are you doing?" I dont know yet.....but a factory 302 roller cam has a little less than .45 lift. Getting the compression up will be one challenge, and getting an intake and headers the next. I have a junk 302 block for mock up, and my plan is to find the right mix of head milling, gasket thickness, piston height, and add 289 rods to raise the top of the piston another .065 . I would like to find a set of flat top pistons to cut my own valve reliefs into. I can also bolt the head to the block and round the chamber out through the bottom of the bore to create space for the piston top to enter the chamber. At this point, I get to choose what compression ratio I want.....10:1? 10.25:1? And if the piston gets that close to the chamber top, the spark plug boss will begin to act like a quench pad? Lol....Why hasnt anyone tried this?? Should I be the one? Or just build a 351C and put it in a Fairmont? I am guessing these heads flow between 220-240 cfm at 3.5 lift, the guides have almost no wear, and the seats clean up real easy. Stock valves have their full margin, and reface with little effort. The springs will go into the trash tho....Would this just ping itself into oblivion, or can that be helped enough with a tight chamber?
You may want to look at pop up Boss 302 pistons, and you will need the water passages on the head's deck surface plugged and have some drilled on the intake face of the head. You can use an Edelbrock E-Boss intake or a Street Boss if you can find one. You will not be the first to do it.
That 302 E boss is almost 500 bucks. Yikes. Piston wise, I am hoping to put it so high above the deck that I will be able to churn the mixture on the compression stroke with the spark plug boss.....sorta like a mock squish pad. I know it sounds crazy, but I am serious. 351W pistons have a compression height of 1.72, about .100 higher than a 302. A block with pistons down the hole .020 will have them out of the hole .080. At that point the chambers will have to be modified to allow the piston to enter, and depending on head gasket thickness and where the original piston was located, 9:1 or more can be had without milling the head and close to 10:1 with .040 milled off. Pistons will need to be notched most likely, but all that can be done in house. I need to research more.....I know longer headbolts will be needed, not sure about push rods yet. Intake and headers of course. I need to figure out the approximate cost, and price it as a 351 build too, and make decisions. Cost and parts availability will weigh heavy in final decision.
The canted valves on the Cleveland head will not align with the inline valve reliefs on a Windsor piston, hence it may be less problematic to use B302 or Cleveland piston with the proper dome to avoid too much head work and reinventing the wheel. In the long run, buying some aftermarket aluminum Cleveland heads may actually be cheaper and they have the quench chambers.
This is a really interesting project, I'll be watching it. One of the things I'd love to try is a 400 with aftermarket aluminum heads having 2v-based ports and closed chambers. With the Edelbrock Performer intake and the right hydraulic roller cam I think it would pull to 6,000rpm with 450hp and 500ft/lbs of torque. The block has to be decked to get good squish, but it can be done.
You are absolutely right Jason. If the end product was the goal, using a more viable combination of parts would be well advised. But, this is just heads for now, and I got about 12 hours into them smoothing out the bowls and figuring out what to do with the short turn to minimize turbulence. It is all about the process and the final product is important but secondary in interest. These heads have 2.04 Intakes and 1.67 exhaust valves which give killer low lift flow when compared to Windsor iron. They need less overlap, especially if the final chamber volume gets as small as I hope. This all should translate to great performance on a nearly stock cam......at least that will be the experiment.
302 vs. 400 400 https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/high-performance-options-for-the-351m-400-engine/ parts interchange 335's
Check this out....400 build with only Ford parts. https://pantera.infopop.cc/topic/408-cubic-inches-using-all-ford-parts
After much fiddling and testing, I got the iron 2v heads to max at .35 lift and hold the same flow out to .55 . I have no actual CFM numbers, but they are squashing old 302 heads that got tested at 190 CFM. I am leaning toward a cleveland block at the moment, which would require a different car. I dont think I am up to stuffing it into a Comet, and a lighter version of an F150 (57-65 or 80-86) would probably suit me better.
I would go with a 351W block and stroke it out. The longer stroke will add to the total cylinder volumn and that will increase the comp ratio even with flat top pistons. That's why the 460 using 429 heads had a dish in the pistons to drop the comp ratio with the longer stroke. Cleveland block will add weight and be much wider. That will have it's own set of problems. The Edelbrock intake, even thou pricy will work. Seems like about 10 years ago there was someone making adapter plates for stuff like this.
Ricky, did you put a 460 in a Fairmont? I know you put one in a Cougar. Would a Cleveland fit into a Fairmont without extreme pain? I dont even know if it has to be front or rear sump oil pan. I am not willing for the grief of fitting it into a Comet. The Windsor block you mentioned is not completely ruled out, but my budget probably doest have room for a stroker kit.
Yes I did, actually a 82 Zephyr, samething. C-6, 9" rear end. Easy peasy back then and even easier now. Used a tubar crossmembers and A-arms. Cleveland will fit even easier since it's smaller/lighter. You will have to use a rear sump due to the rack/pinion. I used a manual RP and manual brakes due to I raced it, so if the engine failed nothing changed. Have lots of info doing this and racing it. If I ever was do to this again, 351W stroked out and made into a Clevor would be my choice. Good block and great heads.
Edelbrock 2060 Total Power Package Top End Kit For Ford Cleveland (351C Heads On A 351W) Includes Intake/Cleveland Heads/Roller Camshaft and Lifters/Timing Chain/Intake/Gasket Set/Bolt Kits
I've watched Richard Holdener's 351M/400 videos, which is what got me so excited about such an engine. I love his stuff. He's taught me that with modern heads and the right parts combination you can get outstanding results out of almost any engine. Some of them just have a few more challenges than others.
