going NHRA Stock Eliminator racing. Need your help.

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Gasp N Roosh, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. Gasp N Roosh

    Gasp N Roosh New Member

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    How-dee! My name Hernandez Herpes. (Well, it isn't but I might use it on the car.) Tijuana Taxi?

    First - I'm a drag racer. Had it burnt into my head as a little human and have been at it one way or another for a while now. I've raced all kinds of machines, but more importantly I like racing NHRA Stock and Super Stock because of the challenge, and the accountability. I'm fairly well known for what I've done with the traditional Pontiac V-8, but I am not a one trick taco. To prove my point in 2004 I built (with the help of some friends,) a 1974 AMC Matador wagon for U/SA. which if you're not into NHRA Classes, that's not USA, that's U stock automatic. The lowest V8 Class in NHRA Stock eliminator. Why build such a thing? Fun.

    I heard a bunch of U/SA racers decided to have a shootout at the first Sports Nationals in Belle Rose, La. They thought it'd be funny cause the Hemi cars were always having a shoot out all over the place, and they decided the anti Hemi shoot out would be fun. It was.

    Unfortunately I had to sell that car after I lost my Super Stocker coming home from Indy in 2004. It was destroyed by Larry the Cable Guy who was driving a fully loaded 18 wheeler who fell asleep coming down hill behind me, put it to the mat, and hit me at over 100 mph close to the bottom of the hill.

    So, I've worked my way thru that, shop is still open, (www.PontiacEngines.com) and I'm piecing together another Super Stocker. however,....

    In the meantime I've become aware of another NHRA combination that is MUCH more favorable as compared to a 3800 lb 304 2 barrel wagon. but will be fairly inexpensive to build. Keep in mind, the current record in U/SA is 14.00.

    It is, a 1975 Maverick or Comet 302 2 barrel that's NHRA rated at 129 hp. Which means, with driver, it only has to weigh 2757 WITH driver.

    I've been looking for a cheap good body and after a week of hunting here in So.Cal. the best thing I could find, and may buy, is a 73 MAv 4 door with a factory 302. It's $900 bucks. As I hate to spend that much I have to think ahead and realize that buying this car might save me money in converting a 6 cylinder.

    What's important to NHRA are the part numbers of the heads, intake, and carb. That's it. Now I can't take a 1970 and just call it a 1975. But if I put the frog lip bumpers on one and it LOOKED like a '75 that'd be ok.

    So, if anyone can help, here's my first basic laundry list:
    1. 1975 heads, two barrel intake and carb.
    2. Because the 73 already has a big front bumper I just need a big rear.
    3. 4:62 gears and spool
    4. Left rear tail light surround. oh,
    5. 1975 tail lights in case I need to squelch a whiner.(Because they say "75" on them like GMs?) If not - don't need em.
    6. Know any drag racer whiners? (ha!) So I'd like a junkyard 1975 door tag.Drill out the rivets and wa-la.
    7. Manual steering gear box set up.
    8. I imagine there will be more.

    I drove this car today and I'm still trying to wind them down a bit on the price, but, it has cold A/C! It runs very well. But I can't use the heads, intake, but I might be able to use the carb if someone can get me a 1975 tag. Are those carbs otherwise marked? Haven't got that far so that's where I need your help.

    I will be stripping this car for all it's worth and selling everything I don't need. NHRA mandates using the alternator so I've got to keep that.

    Even tho NHRA also mandates the use of the STOCK lift, which is 368/380 including the stock rocker ratio. (There's the challenge!) I can use ANY duration and lobe sep.

    As of last year we can use full roller rockers too. Hey! There's #8. Needed, roller rockers.

    I will take you guys along for this crazy ride AND if any of you want to see it the game plan is to debut it at the Class Nationals in Columbus Ohio next May. I'll get ya the exact date soon.

    I think I can get the C4 beefed up locally. But I'll need some kind of looser than stock converter. (#9 need converter)

    #10 - MSd distributor! Don't care how old or rusty it is. I rebuild those.

    Given the cam limitations this engine won't be making 450 hp. The tricks in NHRA Stock Eliminator is less friction. But, I want decent rods. Anyone got some decent aftermarket stronger than stock rods? (#11) :)

    Well, I'll stop for now and I hope some of you will be as interested as I am in this project. I just GOT to think that I can make a 2700 lb 302 2 barrel run mid to high thirteens. Oh! #12 HEADERS!


    thanks!

    Bruce Fulper
    So.Cal.
    909-844-1081
    Here's the event in May:
    http://www.looserocker.com/ncn/index.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  2. Red1972Grabber

    Red1972Grabber Hangtown Hot Rods-NorCal

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  3. franktf

    franktf Member

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    :Welcome:to the site!!!!!
     
  4. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    :Welcome:...:Handshake

    soooooo you thinking all this cheating will make you a winner...:huh:
     
  5. CaptainComet

    CaptainComet Large Member

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    Welcome to the website. :Welcome:

    Frank,
    It is not cheating .... the cars are factored using pretty much the criteria that he went into great lengths to try to explain here. He's operating within the rulebook. Winning in Stock and Super Stock usually amounts to putting together the best combo for a given class, playing up to a HP factor that may deemed a bit soft.... rated HP vs weight. It is a pretty complicated game.

    Cars get "re-bodied" frequently to move between years to get a better HP factor. Add bumpers or trim to get the proper appearance, etc. Interiors can be gutted, etc to get to weight.

    Gasp,
    Even corked with the stock uppers, that 302 ought to go way over 129HP. Double that should be easy. The car could be competitive for the class.

    A point to consider ... the 73 front bumper was one year only. 74-77 are bigger still. You can probably lose weight off the front end by lightening/removing the bumper shock absorbers. Adding the rear bumper should help, these cars are nose-heavy.

    Not sure if a 75 taillight would have a different number. Ford parts tend to carry a number that is the same from the first year used. Same with the heads. My 351W is a 1974 motor (block number reflects that) but they used the same head from 1970 up through that year (and perhaps beyond). The heads you have may be OK (well, still pretty awful, ... but legal). Engine block might be a different story if they look at those numbers.

    Something else you might look at .... in the later cars, they added crash barriers inside the doors. Removing them will help get the weight down. You need to lose about 4-500 lbs to hit that weight goal.

    I'm curious .... what is the HP factor for a 73 302 motor ... 140? It can't be that much more than for 1975. Small heads and low compression throughout all those years. A little higher HP factor might make it easier to hit the bit higher weight goal, and you could keep more of it over the rear wheels.

    I'd be very interested in following this build if you follow through on it. We have a nice project build section on the board. Best of luck. :dancing:
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  6. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    what does the '75 have to do with it?
    if it's within the rulebook why change...body tag...?
    "if someone can get me a 1975 tag"
     
  7. iraceitall

    iraceitall Member

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    Because if you claim the car as a 75, it had better fit what they look for as a 75. Someone inevitably will complain.

    Bruce, I am building one as well here in Div. 6; I'm claiming mine as a 77 since I'm sure the HP on the 75 will be changed more than once this year lol. I have the bumper, intake, and manual steering setup you need, and the door tag too. PM me if interested.
     
  8. olerodder

    olerodder Member

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    Building a car to compete in SS or S has not changed much in the past 40 years. Build a car that maybe takes advantages of some of the loop wholes, (although they have gotten to be fewer and fewer over the years) and just on the fringe of the rule books exact wording.................if you interpret something one way..........you can always get a ruling from the local Tech Rep or it may have to be bumped up to National.............or you can take your own interpretation and run with it.............and if NHRA does not agree...............you have to change it...................everyone in the SS and S ranks does this all the time...................and have been for as long as I've been racing..............which is longer than I'd like to admit.
    But it ain't cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Take a look at this

    http://www.nhra.com/competition/classification.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
     
  9. John Holden

    John Holden Member

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    Sounds like fun. I'll be following...
    Can you narrow your rod and main bearings to reduce friction?
     
  10. olerodder

    olerodder Member

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    Suuuuurrrrrrreeeee you can, but if someone does a protest and their tear your motor apart and find that you did that..............you'll be paying NHRA staff to tear the motor down, you will be disqualified............and you will have to put the motor back together and hope you can sell it to recover the costs................you need to be just a little more subtle than that.
     
  11. Paul Masson

    Paul Masson MCCI Atlantic Canada Rep

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    :Welcome: from Atlantic Canada! Sounds like a fun build. I will be looking forward to seeing your Build Thread in the General Maverick section.
     
  12. dan gregory

    dan gregory Member

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    That`s why I would`nt want to run S & SS in the NHRA,those guys are a PITA.If you remember back in the late 70s & early 80s Mavericks were punished pretty badly w/ the larger V8s making them almost non competitive.The only cars they could`nt punish enough to help Chevy win was the Hemi Cudas,& they created a class only for them.
     
  13. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

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    I was as well and from my Motors manual 1973 Hp is listed as 135, 136, 137 or 138, guess it depends on which chassis the engine is residing... Chilton says 141...

    Interestingly Chiltons clams the 1975 Mav/Comet as 122 & Granada/Monarch as 129... They also list a Calif spec at 115Hp(no models given for this one)... For '76 specs are in the 130-138Hp range, '77 lists a calif version at 122Hp...


    OH and OP welcome, I'll be following along on this as well...
     
  14. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    sooooo it's not cheating until you get caught...:huh:
     
  15. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

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    It's not cheating, it's called "getting competitive"...

    Anyone with half a chance of winning is doing same...
     

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