Have been offered a High Dollar 300ci Ford 6cyd Drag Motor

You know Greg..............maybe I did fly off the handle a little, but when someone raises the flag I take it personal. I guess being old school has it's drawbacks, because I grew up in a world that had no computers and when I went to engineering school we used "Slide Rules". When we were putting together drag race motors we went with intuition an by the seat of our pants...............just like making headers, we would built the collectors long.......maybe 2/3' long........spray some VHT on the collector and where it burnt off we would cut it...................as for the Ford 300 six it is possibly the strongest cast production block made with 7 main bearings and very thick deck and cylinder walls not to mention main webs.
You know, sometimes people rely too much on computer programs and take them as the all seeing truth............they are an indicator at best because they have no way of predicting what a well set up chassis will do. I have seen this car turn very low 8's and have no doubt it can turn in the 7's, and don't know why everyone thinks it has to make 2.5hp/ci to do so......that is beyond me. Like I said, my Maverick on a worn out 408ci turned a 9.801 and yet all of the socalled calculators say it should only be turning in the mid 10's.....and the same refreshened motor is only doing 1.6hp/ci on 13 year old outdated heads.....................................................go figure

 

What the heck is a slide rule?



I never could figure those things out!

 

I do hear ya and I still use spray paint when I build headers these days. I also shoot for equal length whenever possible too even though many say it means squat and bends per primary are the most important aspect to consider.

And like I said.. the suspension and setup can overcome weaknesses more than most will realize.

And yes.. I do know about the mains 7 bearing strength advantage with those blocks. They're more RPM limited than horsepower limited and that's what I was aiming at above more than anything.

I was, and still am at a bit of a loss at how that 1800 pound car can run 7.99 with "around 600 horsepower" as originally mentioned before though, but no biggie and I'm not trying to debate until you're thouroughly P'd off at me. I even tried figuring lower parasitic loss into the mix it seems to me that you would need around 700 at the rears/800 crank to push that car to 7.99.

But.. I've been wrong before.. and it won't destroy my pride if I'm wrong again. Especially when comparing notes to someone who seems quite knowledgeable. If you've seen it with your own eyes?.. then that will have to be good enough for me.

Anyhow.. that would be one damned fine and obscure choice for a street/strip Mav like yours. Mind if I ask for a ballpark guesstimate how much he wants for it?

 

You know Scooper, the Pickett was one of the low end slide rules, I had a Lietz made of bamboo and cost as much 46 years ago as a Core i7 Laptop costs today. Here is a picture of a slide rule I always wanted, built into a watch............but it was even more expensive back in the day.

 

Sadly, I am old enough to have owned a slide rule. I could only use it for basic functions, but my dad built missiles for Boeing using those damned things. And cnc machines that ran on long strips of paper with holes punched in them. He used to bring them home to me, and I would put a flashlight behind them and project the dots onto a wall in a dark closet and try to figure out the programs....

 

I re-read it and realized that that last post means absolutely diddly-squat to 95% of the members on here....

 

Yes, the motor sounds really interesting and if I can lighten the Maverick by 2/3 hundered pounds or more I would think I'd have a shot to dip into the 9's.
You know, if the NASCAR guys can get 2.2HP/ci with a single carb....well I believe anything is possible with enough time and $$$$. It's like the old saying......................"So you want to go really fast......how much $$$ do you have"?

 

I understood everything perfeclty....................why wouldn't they.
Talking about Boeing............I helped engineer and install robotic systems in Everett, WA that put the interiors of the 737/777 together. Also did some robotic systems for Witchita and got to see one of the Air Force One's.
Had a lot of friends at Boeing................still own some of their stock that I bought...................well....................a longtime ago when it was less than $25 a share.

 

No problem..................it was just the BS thing that ticked me over the edge.
I really believe the motor makes around 670/690HP but the motor has not been on a dyno for a number of years. That would certainly be one of the first things I'd do...............just to see what the real numbers were.
It's like I keep saying about my Maverick...............650hp or less at the crank and turning high 9's just doesn't comput with any calculators and even surprised me because the car weighs 3325 wet. Anyway it would be something you don't see at the strip much anymore, a six cylinder in a door slammer.
I don't think the motor goes past 8500/9000rpm and I know it lauches about the same as my Maverick, around 5000rpm. The Altered very seldom raises the front wheels more than a few inches off the ground and believe his 60' times are exactly what I want..............1.1 or 1.2, where mine are in the 1.4's.
As for money................he has thrown out a $15k figure for everything related to the motor including the two blocks and a ton of parts............so I figure I could get $10/12k for my motor and trans and only have to make up a little difference. He also said I could have the C6 he currently has if I buy the motor...............so, it sounds pretty sweet to me.
Headers have been a passion of mine, I love to build them. Kind of like the headers in the Maverick now, I got together with Chris Hill, the owner of SPD Exhaust in Sacramento, CA.......................and together we mod'd the headers that were built by Bill Dawson (the current Maverick headers) that were built some 13 years ago............which are 1-3/4" Primaries stepped to 1-7/8"..................................anyway............love building headers.

 

Sounds a tad bit steep to me.. but then again.. that's a lot of extras there too. Not to mention, it's not like he has a lot of competition to deal with when selling that type of old school hardware. As with anything though.. timing and degree of want or need is a factor sometimes. So, play it coool, man.

And I've only started doing major exhaust work in the past 10 years after I bought myself a Lincoln TIG with only 4 sets built to date. I'm what you call.. a late bloomer. lol I even made a custom set for my Astro van and planned on eventually modding them for the turbo install.. but.. I digress for once. lol

I will leave you with this little project though...(as he hunts for compliments form the "smart guys").



It's obviously not done and the guides/seats need to be touched up after hand blending my 5 angle valve job(talk about old-school.. I still use a 35 year old Black and Decker stone type grinder that only those with a nack for finesse need apply).. but even at this point the head already flowed more than 200cfm @28 at only .200 lift.. and more importantly with excellent port/seat velocity for low/mid-rpm drivability. Unshrouding all the valves at the edge of the wall and up to the head gaskets fire ring while trimming guides down .270 thou/port flushing them can really help these 4 valves sometimes. The intention was to hit it with a 150 horse shot all the way up to 7,600rpm with its 4 custom cams... but.. I could go on and on. It's funny how everytime I dig out some past projects.. I get all giddy about them with renewed interest in it all over again. But hey.. at least for now I can finally make use of that old 310 inch hi-po headed Ford collecting dust in the corner now.

I do have to say.. that I seriously hate those damned shock towers though.. and getting good straight ports coming off the flange will be tough.. if not impossible to do.

Thanks for the conversation.. and sorry again for starting off the discussion like that earlier.

I have slightly off-topic question for you.. have you, or anyone else reading, ever see someone trim.. or maybe better to say.. "notch".., but not eliminate, the towers in these cars to get added header clearance/servicability?

It looks doable but the motor will be down and back an extra couple inches for CG/balance/weight transfer improvements.. so I may need more yet. Any input would be appreciated.

 

notching the shock towers pretty common practice on these cars, search feature will throw out a tons of threads on it.

 

I look at any price thrown out as a starting point and would really like to around $13k, but the motor is proven.................so we will go from there.
Ports look really nice................5 angle's..........a lot setup work and really fine detail work............I used to think I knew a thing or two about making power with heads until I meet Bob Gromm of Gromm Engineering.....being
in the business for over 40 years has given him more knowledge than almost anyone I know..............although my conversations with Joe Mondello were pretty interesting (he's gone now RIP), and Barney Navarro who was a true master (also gone, RIP). When I started racing SS/IA with my Camaro years ago I had a set of Joe's......"Rule Book" heads on my 327.
I just don't get a chance to make as many headers as I'd like, but I do have Chris Hill (who makes some really nice Cup Car headers for a lot of teams) to keep me focused. Here is a set I built for the blown flathead. On the dyno they pulled almost 15hp more than my first two sets and gave me 315hp @ 5200rpm..................If I get the six, Chris will help me make a couple of sets. The one thing I have been doing is to ceramic coat the inside of the header before doing the outside, which gives a little better scavange than without, and on my Flathead I also ceramic coated the exhaust ports in the block to help decipate the heat.............with the help of Rod Furtado (another Flathead guru that has passed, RIP).
I have some pictures of my Maverick with the towers notched. This was not done by me but Doug Cook of the old Stone/Woods/Cook racing team. If they wouldn't have cut the towers I'd still be running B/SM with the Maverick.

 

Using your car's weight and ET, it shows to take 615 RWHP. With the low driveline losses using a good manual trans, that could be possible. Of course, these calculators all give an absolute "best case" scenario...

If you're referring to my post, it stated 670 RWHP, not "around 600". Again, these are calculators only and not real world applications...

 

Please post specs/ pics of the 300 when you get it home!

My dad had 67 Mustang w/ a 300 3 speed, and when I mentioned this thread, he had a smile from ear to ear!

Can't wait to to see some updates here!

 

I will certainly post some pictures next time I see the car. I am going to race my Maverick until the end of the season but will probably try and make a deal before then and hopefully have someone interested in my drive train by that time also.