That is what I am looking for... I don't want to build an "all-out" motor that will wear out in 40,000 miles. But something more like my Bonneville. I should get 150,000 (half way there, now) with no problems. Maybe get the engine built to 300 hp, then boost to 7psi and get my 450hp.
Come on now...let's not get cocky Seriously...what do you have in your car? Is it streetable? Will it last me even 50,000 miles. I don't mind doing straight up wheel stands, but that is not what I am looking for. I want power, for a large band of RPM, and for a long time. If PONTIAC can do a 150k+ motor with a blower, so can I. If the Bonny has 238 HP on a v6, I should be able to get 400+/- on a V8 with long and efficient life. THAT is what I want. I don't want to blow the doors off for 6 months, then have to swap in a (non-numbers-matching) 351 to replace the motor I have blown up. I don't race, and have never made a penny doing so. In fact, I have spent $5000 making a car that has only been on the track maybe 6 times. The majority of time, it is running for groceries or getting me to and from work (where emotionally challenged children living in a residential facility get a ride 2-3 times per year, if their behaviors warrant it! AND when they do, it is a ride these kids never forget ). I really want the same group of kids to get a "ride of their lives" in 5-10 years. Not something that will blow the doors off the car, twist the frame (any more than I already have!), etc. I am currently running the stock rotating assembly with a moderate cam, new heads, and a 3.80 spool, open headers, and my kids LOVE it! The "LOVE IT" is, by far, the most important part...not any money I might make. I need to build a powerhouse that will stress the block as little as possible, will run as long as possible, and gets decent gas mileage, especially when gas gets back up to $3 and $4 a gallon. (Exit stage left, off of Soap Box...)
scoop, i have no idea how much power my 347 makes, but with 3k stall i haven't had a problem driving it on the street (before my trans problems) and yes i can break tires loose going 30 with being barely on the throttle. the car is just plain fun, tomorow i'm going to fix the trans, "adjust my radiator so my hood closes and wake up the neighbors again.
my set up is forged eagle bottom end, flat top pistons, world roush 200 heads (aka windsor jr.) cam is lunati voodoo 233/241 duration at 0.050 lift i think with 538 int/560 exh. with holley 670 carb and stealth intake, 3k stall covertor desktop dyno sais 550, but i highly doubt thats accurate
WOW! The reason I am on this board is to learn what will work and what won't. If the 347 is not good for 50k miles, I am not going to do it. If I have to keep it 302, or 306, or even 331, I will. Like I said, I am putting one engine in this thing. Never messing with it again after it is painted. I will have no problem paying for a 347/331 that WILL make 50-100K miles. If the parts are out there. Again, does anyone know where I can find good technical resources for our engines? Not just building them up, but what the problem areas are, how to fix those problems, etc.
Scoop, it's me again. the guy you like to hate for calling you on your positions just like the last few replies. I run a Kenne Bell on a stock 5L Speed density that now has 152,000 mile in the clock. If you put in a 331 and convert to EFI then set a Kenne Bell 1500 blower on top, the hood will just close. I can garantee you will have so much torque from 1800 rpm up to 6200 that you will not want any more power in that car for the street providing you stick to your intended use. The street tires you now use won't mean a thing for traction. Like to tub out for big slicks? This is also a recipe for disaster if misused in a Maverick. I know of a 331/2200 K.B. combination in a 3700 lbs car that runs low-low 11s and lifts the front wheel off the line. Just relate to that for a second. You really have no concept of this so take some words of wisdom from those of us who do it/have it. If this reply insults you, don't waste you time replying.
The 302 in stock trim will put out in the neighborhood of 210 HP If you change out the rods for some that are stronger with 3/8 inch bolts "H" rods Pistons with some STOCK compression forged pistons Cam with one that is designed for the blower at 5000 RPM (stock) and new lifters polish the combustion chambers and match your ports to the gaskets (intake and exhaust) the radiator will be replaced with a 4 row aluminum or brass radiator (custom piece) then add the blower to it (it takes more than bolting one on) set it for 13 lbs boost max. You have a stock compression motor with parts that will hold up to the pressures of a blower that will make 400+ hp. It will last about half as long as a stock compression motor. It is completely streetable and easy to operate. REMEMBER: you are more than doubling the pressures in the burn process. you will have to tune it more often than a stock motor. You can reduce wear with a larger oil pan, oil cooler, and a high volume oil pump. There is no motor made that will stand up to a blower and go 150000 miles without rebuild. This is the low dollar build up for a 400 HP motor - no high rpm to wear the motor out faster. No high compression to start preignition when you supercharge it. You simply have doubled the HP of a stock engine and replaced the parts that won't take the loads with parts that will. If this is too much then you need to start with more cubic inches and get your 400 HP by normal means. Nitrous requires the same parts as I recommended for the blower if you expect the engine to stay working for more than a couple of bottles. You may have to add a steel forged crank. You will need a fuel system upgrade for the nitrous system to your car and keep filling nitrous bottles for each 30 seconds of fun. A turbo motor needs the same internal parts as have been recommended and you will need to replace the turbo each time it fails (around 60 - 80000 miles) if you take car of it. The centrifugal blower will need the same internal mods and it will be hard to get 400 HP from this kind of supercharging.
So...Paul...You're saying that turbos won't last? What usually happens to them that makes them fail? Just curious.
I've driven Lonnies Blower car. (Sweet) Gotta agree here. Performance and longevity do not typically go hand in hand. Right combination of parts and a well thought out plan would help. A performance motor that gets 100k and gets driven like a performance motor is like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Even driving it "sane" (that's relative) doesn't gaurantee anything either!!!
Bluegrass, please don't think that I have any kind of grudge, or whatever, against you. I respect your input very highly. You sound like you have lots of technical knowledge and wisdom (a hell of a lot more than I do, which is why I read this forum almost daily!). In fact, after reading your post and then PaulS, I am wondering if I probably do NOT need a blower. I really want to keep this thing streetable, and don't want to rebuild the engine again. I have a couple years to find and that is why all reasonable input is appreciated. So, the 331 is really a stronger motor (not "HP" strong, but "longevity" strong)? I would easily settle for a 50 HP loss if I could have a longer lasting engine when I get done...
I was going to write a big long diatribe about oil consumption, ring placement, rod raio, and pin offset, but these guys beat me to it. http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/5197/ A short rod 347 will be just fine and give you the displacement and stroke you need to make gobs of tree stump pulling torque and hp. Since you're only spinning to 5500, the tensile loads on the rod won't be a big deal. Hell, if you use an H beam like they recommend, you'll be just fine. Your numbers matching block might be junk though. If you have any kind of core shift at all, going .030 over might put you into a thin spot that will make the block a time bomb for anything over about 300 hp. It might just be ok too. You'll have to get a sonic inspection to know for sure. My advice is to get a 351 and be done with it. Why you might ask? Well, if this is going to be a 150,000 mile street mill, then it's going to have to be NA. There's just no other way around it. You might be able to get away with it by using a blower, but the odds are not in your favor. Especially if you don't want to chase the tune on the carb all the time. The BMEP in blown engines is also higher, which makes the stresses higher too. Might not be the worst thing, but definitely won't help. Go big cubes, go NA.
Good advice there Scooper. As I remember, your shock towers are already notched, right? I've had two 347s. Cracked the block on the first one and a rod let loose on the second. If I had it to do all over again I would've went with a roller 351. The blocks can handle 600-700 hp with ease. If you're concerned about the friction of the 351Ws large main bearings, you can get cranks and rods with smaller Chevy--sized journals for them. But for a street engine I don't think it makes much difference. Plus you can keep your 302 in the corner ready in case you need it someday.
If you run the cool water through the hottest part of the engine first then the rest of the engine will be running on hotter water, what does that do to Oil life?, and bottom end lubrication, seems at minimum you'd want to look at a different oil viscosity to ensure the oil isn't running too thinned out do to heat.
What happens in the reverse coolant flow, is that you have to flow a lot more water too keep the water temp the same. You're absorbing more heat by running cooler water through the head first, but it's still going to be 190F by the time it leaves the block, because that's the temp where the t-stat opens up. All in all, the oil temps will probably go down some, because the oil isn't being forced to absorb as much heat. Should make the oil last longer.
