Looking at that Chevy II setup, I cant believe the ditches aren't full of Novas without front ends. That is some crazy stuff. Maybe they could save money on hardware and just bungee it on there.
Consider that on a stock lower control arm, the arm is held in place bya single bolt passing through a sheet metal bracket, the lower controlarm, another sheet metal bracket. The total thickness of the two sheetmetal brackets is about 1/8 on either side. When was the last time yousaw a failure at the mount point of the stock lower control arm mount? The tubes serve several functions for the lower control arm. The firstis A-arm positioning (making sure the arm is in the proper planes X Y and Z). The second it to helpspread the load on the bolt that is the real support for the a-arm. Here, we have a frame with about 2" of bolt sticking out in front and about 3" in back. This gives the lower control arm more leverage to bend the bolt when under load. The tubes actually provide quite a bit of support as they are, effectively increasing the diameter of the bolt and the amount of force required to bend it. Tubing is stronger than a bolt when it comes to resisting bending. (There was a real nice article in Street Rodder magazine explaining the relative strength of various tubing sizes compared to solid rod. interesting reading.) As shipped from a reputable manufacturer, extra gusseting is not required if you are using a kit designed for your vehicle. On that note, gusseting of the lower A-arm mounts tube never hurts as long as you don't deform the tube when welding. Makes it hard to get the bolt through if the tube bends from too much heat. Most cars do not "need" the gusseting, though, as they almost never get driven hard enough to bend the tube. Dropping a wheel into a really big hole would do it.
Jayman, I have not heard of any failures at the lower A-frame mounting bolt tube but I have read where the long bolt that runs through the tube has sheared off and the car dropped to the ground. Initially I wasn't going to invest in the aftermarket wide tubular lower A-frames because I have 2 NOS stock Mustang lowers that I want to use first. They will be installed inside the cradle and will be using a much shorter bolt to attach them. I have aftermarket front support bars to use with the stock ones also. Later on, I can always weld in the bolt tubes and change over to the tubluar arms. Maybe instead of using such a long single bolt through the mounting tube, I could weld in 2 threaded bungs into each end of the tubing and then be able to use 2 grade 8 short bolts.
That is true, however on a stock car the strut rods transfer the majority of braking and impact loads to the frame(via a beefy rod, large bushings, and a thick crossmember). With nothing to transfer all that energy to the frame but a tube thats hanging a few inches out into space on either side of the crossmember and a long bolt, I still think the stock setup would be stronger. Again, I am no engineer, just making some observations based on pics of failures that I have seen, and the notes and opinions of those much more learned then I. I do still plan on an MII swap. I think in my case it will be plenty strong. Again, I wont have the wheel tire package for cornering, or high braking loads. I think a skinny aluminum front runner will bend before the suspension in the case of a pot hole or jumping train tracks. Hopefully, most of the time the car will be in weight transfer mode and the front tires will just be kinda dangling there lol. I dont know that I would put an MII setup on a road race car UNLESS it was a stock strut rod type setup. And even then I would want through-the-floor subframes, and a nice cage to triangulate and brace the frame.
Like JayMan said. That is some thick wall tubing used for the lower mount and it goes all the way through the lower crossmember. With the being said I know my cross member was ordered out of the old R&C catalog (as the new one was not yet out) and no one bothered telling me when I order the setup for tubular arms the they just changed the config of the lower mount for their NEW LCA's. I already had my LCA so I had to modify my mount by cutting off the front section of the tubing and welding it to the rear. After that I did add gussets just to be on the safe side. If I could make one suggestion to anyone thinking about doing the swap is to go ahead and buy the whole complete kit and be done with it. Manufactures change their setups every so often and what fits today may not fit tomorrow. So at least buy the crossmember and a-arms from the same place. It will save you alot of headaches trust me!
what all is involved in the swap? i can get a mustang 2 front end for cheap and was considering the swap but i have no idea how the swap would work
OK guys. Lots of talk about structural failure and some great info but what about a collsion?? With those shock towers and supports gone I wonder how the front end would react to a collision. I would want a cage in it supporting the front frame. As a tech I wouldnt even think about signing a safety on a car with a front end modification like the M2. Not worth the risk of liability. Its pretty fussy up here when it comes to frame repair and mods.
I've been gone for a a bit. Been busy trying to get a house built, so the Mav is on the back burner again, but you bring a good point. I think that properly welded and beaded panels would serve as an effective crumple zone in an impact to a point. The frame rails will still be there to take some of the hit, as well as the hood, fenders, etc. Add some triangulated bracing and I think you would be just as safe in a collision as you would with the stock steel. Thats just my semi-educated guess based on what my car did after a front end collision. How do the Mustang IIs fare in front end accidents?
Getting started tomorrow I am getting ready to start my Mustang II swap. Bought all the parts from Rod and Customs and have my welder guy coming tomorrow to look at it all. He does a lot of custom builds so I will ask him about the structural support needed with the shock towers gone. Will keep you all posted on how it goes. Im excited to get it underway.
It's not on a Maverick/Comet but this will give you a general idea of what's involved. http://www.spike.com/full-episode/classix-part-2/34152
ok the m2 front end im able to get was problably originally from another stock car. is on a 30s ford hotrod with disk breaks also a 9 in rear
Since that crossmember was not originally designed for a Maverick, I would suggest taking measurements of all of the stock Maverick suspension points and then compare them to where the points would be once the aftermarket crossmember would be installed in your car. Locations like where the lower and upper A-frame pivot points are between one another and how far they are from the top of the frame rail. If the unknown crossmember puts those points in a different plane than the stock ones were, your ride height or the width of your front track could be higher, lower, wider or narrower than stock. You could wind up looking like the front end of a Gasser if you're not careful. My Full Tilt Street Rods crossmember was originally designed for an early Falcon but once installed my track will only be 3/8 of an inch different from stock. My ride height will also only change a 1/4 of an inch. No big deal. In the future they are planning to change this to be a direct weld in for a Maverick/Comet.
