Roller motor from P&P

Discussion in 'Parts Interchange' started by stumanchu, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Hotrock

    Hotrock Rick, an MCCI Member Supporting Member

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    Stu,

    Are you sure you want to use that thermostat housing rather than the type designed for our cars? It would require an oddball radiator hose and possibly be in the way of a future fuel line.

    I enjoy reading your post!
     
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  2. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

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    Yea!!! And it's proper Ford blue!!!

    The TFI modules also retard timing during cranking.
     
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  3. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Distributor came a few days ago. Opted for a new Cardone Duraspark with the big cap and steel gear from Summit. I moved the centrifugal timing to the small slot (10 I think), dipped the gear in oil, and put it in. (Before installing the oil pan, I checked the pump to pan clearance with clay and left it alone at 1/2 inch. I also ran the pump with a drill until oil came up and over the rockers. So, It is ready.) I also made a throttle cable bracket out of strips from a water pump plate (from a junk water pump of course) and a factory bracket, fastened to the two rear carb studs. I am waiting for a transgo SK C5 shift kit....then the trans will get that, a push in green stripe modulator, an H servo, and new shift shaft seals. I have to wait to pull the trans until I move the car to my front driveway.....Then the games begin! The front driveway is concrete, level, and outside the door I have to cherry pick the motor through since my "garage" is "finished" and has no garage door. It is too small for cars, but is a warm place to work so I am very glad for it.
     

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  4. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    You are absolutely correct about that radiator hose. I have to buy one for a 78 econoline van with a 351 and trim it a bit....but oddball has already been installed in my poor car so it thinks it is special.
     
  5. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    I try to keep a "parts book" on my car with the name and numbers of any off year or brand parts (belts, hoses, alt., starter, etc.). I've used. it may come in handy if I need a part on the road.
     
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  6. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    That is a good plan. If I ever break down away from a junkyard and have to use a parts store, I will be in trouble. Or, If my heirs ever want to keep this thing, they might like the info.....or the next owner.... 2 years from now (or less), I might even need to be reminded.
     
  7. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    I know installing a motor is not an exotic process, but the old came out about 3 weeks ago, and I finally got a chance to put in my "junkyard Special." Got a late afternoon start, so it is in; transmission bolted up, TC, and motor mounts. Headers are also in place. It is close. Also picked up breather caps for the "powered by ford" aluminum valve covers, and a GM 4 pin ignition module to fire the duraspark without resistance wire. Motivation is high for the final phases, but Thou shall not rush it.
     

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  8. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    The motor is completely installed. I tried to start it after putting in about 6 hours to get it ready, and it barely ran....backfired out the exhaust alot, and would die if I let it try and idle. I tried moving the distributor both ways to no avail, so I quit for the day and suspected poorly adjusted valves. A few days later, I adjusted the valves (pedestal rockers) by adding a .010 or .020 shim to each one, doing all the intakes and then all the exhaust valves, and spinning the oil pump on every adjustment. I would turn the pedestal bolt until there was no room to wiggle the pushrod up and down, and shim to get just under 1/2 turn to achieve 20 ftlb. on the pedestal bolt. Specs I read ranged from .020-.060 preload, and one turn of the bolt is about .055. I assume that once the bolt begins to get tight, it is no longer creating preload and is only stretching, or whatever bolts do when they are tight.....so of that 1/2 turn, I think I got about .020+ preload (just what seemed to be happening, but this is kind of new territory). After an afternoon of that, a restart yeilded no change in how it ran. I double checked my timing, and yanked off the vac advance hose just because I had no other ideas. It started and ran smooth and quiet! Finally, I could hook up a timing light. I set the timing at 10* just for a place to start, and hooking up the vac advance would instantly kill it, like turning the ignition off. The engine idles at 17 in. vac and the needle is steady. The distributor is brand new, except that I fiddled with it to put the centrifugal advance in the small slot. Is there a way a 1985 Duraspark can short out with poor reassembly? lol, something is wrong. First test drive: I could tell as soon as I put it in gear that there was a slight misfire. Seemed to run decent, but removing all plug wires one at a time told me that cylinders 1 and 2 were weaker than the rest. I didnt drive it much at all yet, but will probably check compression next. I checked for blowby, but didnt notice any. Also need to figure out distributor issues. I will know more after a compression check. Since this engine is built out of junk, these problems create angst and doubt in the back of my mind; but I guess the same would be true with a motor that was new. I want it all sorted out before I go over to the freeway though.
     
  9. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

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    Do you have a vacuum hand pump?? Would be interesting to see how engine reacts to slight vac addition.

    I've never been a proponent of using full manifold vacuum for advance. I'd much rather set base timing then adj vacuum adv as necessary.
     
  10. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    I did use the hand held and 7-8 in. killed it. It almost seems like the vac pot is grounding something as it moves because the motor doesnt go through a range of changes, it just quits. You are probably right about using port vac on this motor as it seems to need less advance. I will get to open the hood later on today, and I will have the ohm meter handy as well as the compression gauge. I am getting faster at spark plug removal at least, and the headers will be cold. Once I know the status of a compression check, I can focus on just ignition. This car is becoming Frankenstein....Volvo relay, BMW temp sensor, GM module, Taurus fan, starter from a truck, drive shaft yoke from a van, Granada brakes, Booster from China, Headers from hell. I hope guys who get their car in one piece appreciate them.
     
  11. RMiller

    RMiller My name is Rick

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    Vacuum advance is designed to run ported vacuum. If you run manifold vacuum you lose timing as you accelerate.

    I have only seen manifold vacuum to the advance as a way to retard timing. Seen it on a Ford and Pontiac, was routed through a ported vac switch. It gave more timing for cold starts then pulled it as the coolant reach operating temps.
     
  12. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom

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    I'll guess your theory is correct, a sudden stall at certain vac level indicates something isn't happy when moving. I'd check for a lead on pickup being grounded.
     
  13. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Did the compression check, and the low was 130 and the high was 160. A bit more of a spread than I hoped, but nothing I am going to worry about. The engine was not run for 24 hours and I did it cold. I had one cracked plug, and I put it in # 1 so I could get to it easier next time. I turned the hex screw in the vac pot from all the way in to out nine turns. This gave me about 12-14 degrees advance at 17 in. Any more than that was still killing the engine, and I moved it from manifold to port. I am getting about 15 from my centrifugal in the small slot. Funny thing about it is when the engine revs up, it subtracts 10* momentarily and then starts advancing. I have my base at 18* I took it to the freeway and I noticed right away that there was significantly more torque, and more torque sooner. It pulls harder at every point in the rpm band over the old motor. The exhaust is tolerable. And while this engine does not yet run as smooth as the old one, I definately would rather have this one under the hood. My favorite difference is this one pulls hard immediately, no matter what RPM it is at.

    So here is the final rundown of parts for anyone who is interested:

    1987 roller short block ..........Pick&Pull, 40% off, ......... $167.00
    GT40 heads from early 97 Mountaineer P&P................. $100.00
    drop in spring kit, valve stem seals , Alex parts... $150.00
    Heads milled .040................................................ $90.00
    Misc. parts from Summit: Pedestal shims, rod bearings,
    head gaskets, engine finishing kit, timing chain, $180.00
    Gaskets, water pump, core distributor, FB marketplace $40.00
    American cast Edelbrock RPM manifold, FB marketplace $125.00
    Timing cover.........................P&P........................... $18.00
    Misc. bolts, washers, paint........Ace hardware................. $25.00
    Distributor, Summit, Duraspark with steel gear = vac pot $72.00
    camshaft, 1995 mustang GT spec, P&P............................ $24.00

    Parts that were re-used: lifters, headbolts (non TTY), pushrods,
    AOD 164T 50 oz flexplate, harmonic balancer 50 oz.

    Parts used from old motor: Holley 600 vac secondary carb, mechanical
    fuel pump, all pulleys and brackets

    Oil, filter, coolant, thread sealer, gaskacinch, ..................... $50.00

    Total......................................................................................$1,041.00


    I doubt that I will put more than 30K miles on this car if I keep it until I cant drive, and this engine should easily last that long, and has enough power to keep me interested. lol....it was fun. time to dial in a few more things on the chassis.
     
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  14. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    I used an ohm meter on it and I get resistance from the ground screw under the cap to the ground on my fender, or the battery. I dont know enough about it to know what is supposed to happen, and since I got that GM 4 pin module in the mix, that may affect it? I'll be scratching my head a bit.
     
  15. RMiller

    RMiller My name is Rick

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    I would probe all the wires going into the distributor to test what Krazy Comet is leading to. I suspect he is correct and if you ground your meter, probe each pin individually while using a vacuum pump to cycle the advance unit you can either find it or rule it out. Harbor Freight has these or you may be able to do the rent and return from Autozone.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-vacuum-pump-39522.html?_br_psugg_q=vacuum+pump
     
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