Borgeson steering upgrade in process!

Discussion in 'Technical' started by mojo, May 7, 2015.

  1. modmav

    modmav Member

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    I installed a Unisteer power rack in mine and had to make some modifications to the tie rod ends, smaller flow valve and since I have a aluminum water pump I could not use the bracket they sent for the cast pump, seems there is always some engineering short falls. I have gotten quite used to reinventing the wheel with mine
     
  2. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    So, how did the setup work for you? What type of steering was on the car prior to the conversion?
     
  3. modmav

    modmav Member

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    was stock manual steering, works good although it is a bit touchy since it is only 2.75 turns lock to lock. at the present time I only have 1.5 degrees positive caster, I hope toe change the UCA to gain another 3 which will help at highway speeds. The tie rod ends they supplied are straight which put a lot of pressure on the rack with the car on the hoist,I swapped the 3.5 gpm flow valve to a 2 gpm, The pressure hose blew on me one day so I had Napa make me a new one which is much stronger than the screw together braided original, plus I could not use the pump braket they sent because I am running an aluminum water pump so I ordered a KRC bracket that bolts on the head. all added expenses and work but I'm pleased with the results. All together I have around $1500 in it
     
  4. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    I thought I had some issues -- looks like you had many. Did you have to go to mini-type starter?
    Does the wheel come back to center w/ only 1.5 deg of caster?

    I have abt $1500.00 in mine when I add 2 alignment cost, SPC - UCArms, which I sold ($100.00 loss), and pressure hose made. All that, don't include time I loss 2 seasons non-use and a lot of extra time removing suspension in the hottest part of the year.
    I had thought about going w/ Unisteer but it had just come into production when I decided to go w/ system that had been around for a while.
     
  5. modmav

    modmav Member

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    I already ad a mini starter in, I have to help it return to center a bit, the bump steer is gone but like to dart a bit on uneven road surfaces with only 1.5 caster, hope to swap stock uca with SPC ones this winter. had a few issues yes. Unisteer did warranty the hose but the 3500 psi Napa hose makes me feel better, a buddy put the borgeson in his and he did not like it but I dont remember why, That was a 68 Mustang. Why did you sell your SPC arms if I may ask?
     
  6. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    I had a knocking noise in the front suspension and cud not figure out where it was coming from. Also, wud make a grinding noise sometimes when taking a corner. My alignment mechanic and I, cud not see what cud possibly be making these noises. The noise was seemingly come from the pass side; scared me to death. Replaced them w/ stock type arms and shims to add caster. Visual inspection didn't show any flaws in the SPC arms.
    Going to roll w/ this setup -- here on out. I hated to remove them -- but it solved my problem.
    Others have used them w/o issues -- so I am told.

    What type steering 68 Mustang b4 he did Borg conversion?
    What did he do w/ the car - sold it, still have it?
     
  7. modmav

    modmav Member

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    I cant honestly tell you what he had before, but sure it was manual he did sell it. I can ask him what it was that he didnt like about it. So what you are telling me is the SPC arms were making the noise, stupid question but did you have them mounted on wrong side because unlike the stock arms there is a left and right and if you install on wrong sde puts you in a negative caster and tires rub as I understand it
     
  8. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    Valid question. I contacted tech support B4 installing them to make sure I was clear on install instructions. They told me the marks on the arms face up, as per instructions. And, the one marked L, goes on drivers side, R on pass side. I got to figure the SPC'S were making the noise. Noise went away when I removed them -- they are the only thing I changed. Others have used these seemingly w/o issue. I am stumped on the reason -- why I had this issue.
    If possible, ask the Stang owner why/what he did not like abt the Borg setup.
     
  9. modmav

    modmav Member

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    I asked him what he didn't like about the Borgeson set up, he said it actually amplified the bump steer meaning with the power assist made it more difficult to hold the wheel steady if that makes sense, do you know of any others on the forum that are using the SPC arms, I am wondering if the different geometry may bring springs closer that coil spring cover and rub on it, or I have also seen coils walk around on the spring perch if they are not centered properly or the other thing is if they were not welded up straight so I ask did you have any trouble installing the bolt into the cross bar(I think that's what its called but doesn't sound right)
     
  10. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    jasonwthompson has the arms on his car. Glad u decided to add ur experience to this thread. He seems to had gud experience w/ his arms. We had several exchanges on the subject B4 I decided to give them a try. You might want to contact him on his experience.
    I did have a little trouble getting the bolts in the SPC arm cross bar, had to use a prybar, but, also had to use it on the stock units. I did have the spring bottomed against the spring perch stop - so no issue there.
    It was easier to get the spring compressed for the SPC arms because the arms are/sit abt 1 in" lower in the tower.
    I replaced my stock spring perches w/ roller perches and bump steer is not much of an issue.
     
  11. modmav

    modmav Member

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    that's why I asked about the bolts if they don't line up properly could put extreme stress on it, from my research it is tight but bolt should line up without prying, the stock arms should not need prying either
     
  12. mojo

    mojo "Everett"- Senior Citizen Supporting Member

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    Well! I am not very experienced in suspension/steering so I have no idea if prying is not necessary w/ this type of suspension. I will say, the pass side ARM went on w/ very little prying and it was the one making all the racket. The drivers side was a bear and it made no noises. Go figure! The car was in an accident at some point but frame show no sign of damage, dr. side fender & door were repaired/replaced, " not sure which" & painted. Alignment shop, has no issue using\aligning car w/ modern type equipment.

    I have no idea why we cudn't figure out the problem; it's all behind me now. Hope you have better results.
    Interested in learning how the Unisteer works when you get it mated w/ the SPC arms. I know of only one other person who has the Unisteer setup on his car -- seems to like it a lot. He attended the Gathering in Lima, OH. this past July. Several people drove the car, didn't see anyone get out w/ a frown on their faces. I understand his car was the mule for the startup production.

    I notice on windy days "cross winds" , seemingly, have greater effect on the car than in past. It drifted on windy days B4 I changed steering, just seemed not quite as noticeable.
    That cud be because the steering wheel play is about 1/2 -3/4in. w/ motor off , about an inch less than stock.
    I am of opinion, this tighter spec "loosing the rams & control valve hdwe" compared to old setup makes it more pronounced feel of the car shifting position. If that makes sense!
    At this point, I can say, I am reasonably satisfied w/ the way the car drives -- will get a chance to put some real miles on next season -- that is when I can assess how many of stars I can rate it w/ 5 star rating -- 5 being the highest....
     
  13. modmav

    modmav Member

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    thats what my buddy said, with that type being integral with the car running on jack or hoist you can actually grab the wheel and turn it just as if you were turning the steering wheel which I imagine is why it reacts this way while driving, the more positive the caster the better as we all know. with the positive caster it requires a bit more muscle to turn with manual steering so with power steering one can increase the caster, which is easy with small tires, which is where I am at, mine begin to rub on valance at 1.5 but in order to get the car pull straight ahead without constantly playing with the wheel I need more which is the only reason for the UCA swap, really dont need the 1" drop since i am not into road racing or 50 mph cornering, I wished we knew why you has issues with yours because the extra caster and maybe bumpsteer kit would be a great improvement. The only issues I have is at higher speeds it just doesnt track quite right, question what is the ratio or number of turns lock to lock on yours
     
  14. modmav

    modmav Member

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    the rack they use for the maverick is a low pressure rack similar the the mustang and the pump came with a 3.5 gpm flow valve which was way too much for such a small unit, just touch the wheel and you are in another lane or ditch, so I swapped it for a 2 gpm valve and it is much better, a little more effort to turn at low speeds but that's OK. the turning radius is not as tight as stock but I'm OK with that also, I think that is why I blew the hose because to much floe with the original floe valve, since the rack dictates how much pressure is needed at the pump and the excess is bypassed I did not try to lower the pressure. I can tell you that compared to stock steering the uni-steer is like driving a modern sports car. Probably time to shut up for now
     
  15. modmav

    modmav Member

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    question, I have some spare parts to sell, some new and some used, how do I go about doing so on this forum
     

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