HHO Generator - Save Gas

Alright... If I was on the other side of this debate, I'd be right beside people like Frank saying "put up or shut up." So I will test it. :Handshake

Please email your instructions to drew@pittman.ws. I will build it, post a description and a pic, and confirm that it's done right.

Meanwhile I will top off my wife's car with fuel from the same station she always goes to then reset the trip odometer. I'll ask her to not to fill up, to let me do it, and I will make up some plausible reason for it. Cheaper gas on the way to some place I'm going, whatever. I'll note the number of gallons it takes, look at the odometer, and post the baseline fuel mileage for the control.

Then I'll install the device in her car with the power disconnected. I'll go to the same station, top it off, reset the odometer and connect the device. She'll be unaware of what I'm doing, she'll drive the same way she always does and to the same places. Her routine is pretty much the same each week. When it's time to fill up again, I'll post the numbers and we'll all see what happens.

I promise objectivity, I will not screw with the numbers, and I will not lie if I'm proven wrong. If possible, I might even take pics of gas pump and odometer readings.

Does this experiment sound valid to everybody?

 

Sounds good to me. I will email you the design drawing now and everything else you will need later tonight.

Brad

 

One stipulation... This is an EFI car we're talking about, and I draw the line at modding the O2 sensors or defeating any kind of factory equipment. If that's a problem I can do this on the Maverick, but I'm not handing the keys over to my wife and she wouldn't take 'em if I did.

Also if anybody doubts my objectivity or bong-constructing ability they're welcome to send me theirs, but I think any of my old high school classmates can confirm I know what I'm doing in that regard.

 

It is possible that that may cause a problem, but I am not sure. Some people don't have the problem with O2 sensors and some do. If the car is a Carb, or the EFI system is older than a '91 it will be fine, but newer than that and I am not possitive.

I ran into that problem when I went to my design because of the output it was giving. I lost 3mpg when I put it on and didn't adjust my O2 sensor so it started running rich. What I did was I grabbed some 18mm spark plug no-foulers and drilled out the centers to 1/2in and then stacked 2 under each O2 sensor to pull it out of the extra O2 stream a bit so it will make it run at normal levels...not actualy lean, but at a normal fuel level. This is less invasive than putting on a EFIE device. Before I put in my system it gave me a 4 or 5 mpg gain on a smaller system that used more amps and generated more heat.

Send pics of the design and I can help ya, but I have a feeling you won't have any problems. Just FYI I got a snap lock lid container from Wal-Mart to put it in...microwave safe because the heat this will generate (110F - 140F) depending on location and area pressure.

If you feel daring you can make a circle of 8 washers in an array instead of 6 if your container can hold it. This will give more surface area.

 

BlueGrass:

I know the fact at running super lean and what it can do to the car. The dealer tested it after my modifications and I am not running far off from normal. I believe 16:1 AFR where 14:1 is normal. Not only did the dealer verify this for me I know it is not running lean because of the fact it was running so rich when I put on my device before adjusting the O2 sensor. The more O2 you pump in the car when it is not expecting it causes alot of strange things to happen. If I would run without the device turned on I have a feeling I would be at aroung a 18-20:1 ratio which I would consider lean at the low end and super lean at the high end.

 

Car is an '04 Dodge Stratus, 2.4 liter 4cyl. The only change I'm willing to make is wiring up the device and connecting an intake hose, so I hope that's not going to invalidate the experiment and cause the results to be doubted. Sorry, I just can't play around with this one as much.

If I do it with the Maverick then we lose the benefit of an uninformed driver, and Bubba is already doing that experiment...

 

Hey if you willing to give it a shot then we can try it without O2 modifications. You won't have to mess with wiring just get a 20 amp inline fuse and wire it to a lighted water proof switch and mount it between the hood and the windshield. Less of a chance to mess up your fuse box and blow things that are vital on accient. You will have to drill a hole on the clean air side of you intake after you MAF sensor. You can also put a "T" on your vaccum hose from your engine and not your brakes instead so you won't have to drill anything. Not going to promise anything with out the O2 modification...I just don't know how the car will react. You will have to put a dripper valve on the bubble device so the airflow will not suck in water.

EDIT: You can't do the switch thing and make it hidden...forget that part.

 

The wiring is not a concern. I'll wire it to come on with the ignition, and I'll use a relay to keep from frying anything.

No drilling, but I'll find a good place to put it. PCV hose maybe...

No point in doing the test on this car then. I'll waste my time and money, you and everyone else who doesn't like the results will say I should have modded my O2 sensors.

Not a problem...

 

You make it sound like I am going to be a jerk about it if it doesn't work. Yes you may have to modify th O2 sensor and you may not. I understand that you don't want to do it because it is not a sure thing, but it wasn't a sure thing in your mind to start with anyway. It's cool though. If anyone else that wants to try it just let me know. Guyes and Gals...this works...if you don't believe me the you don't believe me, but if you do then I can help you.

Brad

 

I don't think you'll be a jerk. I don't think anybody will. But if there's no confidence in the method then the experiment is doomed from the beginning.

I want to prove or disprove this. I mean, wouldn't you love it if a very vocal smart-assed naysayer like myself proved that it does work? Here's your chance. But I want a fair chance too. If I don't mod my O2 sensors, then the deck is stacked against me. But winning this craziness is not important enough for me to hack the car or take risks with it. It's just out of warranty...

 

LOL!


Brad... What are you using as the "cell" itslef? The thiner metals seems to get eaten away too fast... but the thicker metals are pretty expensive. Im using 6 inch bolts right now. Seems to work pretty good. Anythign better?

Also... Do you own a Maverick?

 

Just build it and put it on your Maverick. See if you can find a cheap Air/Fuel ratio gauge that has the O2 sensor that goes in your exhaust. See if there is any difference with the thing off or on...

 

Laugh if you want, but if I burn that motor by running too lean due to fooling the O2 sensors, it won't be funny to me. Literally, the warranty just expired on that car and while I'm willing to hook one of these things up to it, I'm not going to risk the car my wife carries my child around in over an internet pissing contest.

However... If y'all can trust that I will maintain my normal driving style throughout the experiment, (basically ) then I'll do it on the Mav.

 

Car manufacturers install many things in a car while it is being built that could possibly explode if not installed properly. Batteries come to mind.
I am sure if a Car manufacturer came up with a solid gold device that gave their vehicles a 50% boost in mileage like the HHO proponents claim, they would have it all engineered and on the production line within a week. And I am pretty sure there would not be a Mason Jar anywhere in sight.

Cars require motor oil change every six months.
As for the 900 mile top ups, a competent engineer would have that problem sorted out by lunch time.

Well, if they do not maintain it every six months all they will do is start using lots more fuel.
I think people would quickly get into the habbit of their six monthly service when their fuel bill started to double.
And it is likely if real engineers got onto the problem they would quickly design something that did not require servicing for 50,000 to 100,000 miles other than occasionally adding water.

If it were just a "Big Oil Conspiricy", the Chinese and Rusasians would have had these devices on their vehicles for the last 30 years. They are not controlled by big oil.

Tilly

 

My apologies... I thought you were refering to your Mav.