Looking to have my Air Conditioning recharged but was wondering who has converted to to R134a and what kind of results they had? I realize it is advised to change hoses and fittings etc. when converting to a R134a system, but I was wonder which way most of you have gone?
r12 vs r134a Bottom line, 134 doesn't blow as cold as r12. Trouble is, Freon gets a bit more expensive and a bit harder to come by every year. The $70.00 Retro fit kits you buy at your local Schucks or wherever are not infallable and you usually end up going through a seal here and there, not to mention having to go somewhere with a reclaimer to get the freon purged anyway. I live in NW Washington, so AC is only needed here for about 10 minutes every fourth year or so. If you need AC and plan on keeping your rig for the forseeable future, I think I'd look into converting the entire system with parts from a later model factory 134 vehicle rather than just a couple of fittings. Or get a hold of Vintage Air (www.vintageair.com) and get your wallet ready. Just my opinion. -Ray
I did the conversion The results were fine. Yes everyone says r-134a does not work as well as freon but that is what is going in on all the vehicles. I bought a condenser for 120 bucks and replaced it myself, took it to my local brake shop to have then pull a vacumn on it. Then I used those retrofit kits and have not had a problem since. Not to mention I live in New Mexico. It is hot here and in the summer time we always need a/c. LOL in fact I am roasting right now in my house. The system is efficient and runs just as well as my brother's '97 yukon, which was recently recharged! Plus the retrofit kit was only 40 bucks and the condensor change is probably not needed. Mine however was beat up. Another side note is my ac does not rob my engine of much power at all when i am not using it! THis is because my system has a pulley with a clutch that runs the compressor. When my ac is off this clutch is off and the only hp that is being taken is the hp needed to turn the belt and pulley, which is almost equal to that of my steering pump or alternator. In fact it is less than the alternator. Some systems are different however. Some turn the compressor all the time and divert the refrigerant passed the high pressure side, which is the compressor to the condensor then to the expansion valve. Those systems do take away a bit of hp. I am not sure what type most mavericks came with. Mine has the clutch type.
Here is another way to look at the problem. If you do the vacuum test to be sure there are no leaks and repair any found, replace the Freon 12, your system will perform as well as is could. If you go to R134, you (properly) need to convert to a larger condenser, and right supporting parts to obtain cooling that matches the R12 system. So the end result 'can be' both jobs costing nearly the same. I'm sorry but the simple approch from the auto store does not cut it for ultimate performance. I here the same thing over and over that the simple approch is fine. What is called fine? My idea of fine is at least 35 degree air at the out let registers. I dont think the easy way will perform to that level when reloading an R12 system with R134. The two have greatly different operating charteristics and need different system parts sizes. Here is how you can vacuum test your own system for leaks and holding. Get VACUUM HAND PUMP and make a tight conection to the high side of an empty system. If the system is reasonably tight it will take about 8 minutes or more of hand pumping to pull down a vacuum using a hand pump. You can pull at least 26 inches of vacuum by this method. Leave it for at least 30 minutes. If it doesnot drop more than a few points, consider that you have a tight enough system to refill. Trust me. Ive done this more than a few times and refilled with R12 after resealing the systems.
Yes that is true that both jobs might cost the same but then what happens when it needs recharging. Freon will be even less avaliable and more expensive. And I know for sure that it will not last years without a recharge, even a good system. I found that when I was asking and calling around on whether or not to convert, the only people that told me it was a bad idea were the ones that sold the freon! I was not sure and then I checked the cost. I bought the kit for forty and then bought my condenser (which came with the dryer) and seals for r-134a. The total was like 170-180, but for about a pound and a half of freon for one charge it was worth it ( cans are 12 onzes at $63 a can for r-12, while r-134a is $6 for a 12onze can). Next time it needs recharging, it wont cost that much. I did mine the beginning of last summer and i still works fine. And again, I live in a hot area. The difference between the two refrigerants is their boiling points. R-134a is a little higher than that of r-12, which means when condensed and rapidly expaned it can not absorb a lot of heat. However, the difference is not that much.
uhhhh the other thing to think about is that r-12 screws up the atmosphere. studies have shown that the ozone layer is 90% of what it was in 1970..the reason i feel relatively strong about this is because i was never a sun worshipper. never tried for that great tan. (as some of you may know) i had my lower left eyelid removed because of skin cancer. the whole eyelid. then off to the plastic surgeon for a new one. i spent the same amount of time outside as any other kid. so now your kids are out playing in the same sun with 10% less ozone blocking out the sun. just my .02
back on the soapbox for another .02 since i lost my job as a printer and am now in hvac school, today i was told that r-12 isn't even being manufactured any more. ok to sell it to licensed technicians but when it is gone.. that's it.
Interesting topic. I have a couple of questions. Why would you need to recharge your system if you don't have any leaks? There are many systems that are running 5,6,7 or more years without needing a recharge. I'm currently going to convert my Mav to R134 & would like to know what kits are available & what do they consist of? Prices, availabilty, manufacturer etc.?
I heard a few months back that r-134 may be discontinued as well because it pollutes our planet as well, unfortunetly, the details have escaped me, but it may mess up the water tables underground Has anyone else heard this?? If it is true, it may be worth waiting to convert.
I have bought the cheapo 134A retrofit kits and installed them on approximately12 vehicles in the last 5 years. Plus I worked at a shop where we did the Real deal conversion. In my opinion, it is not worth the price of a complete conversion on cars that do not get used daily. If your ride is a daily driver and you want the AC during the warm months, spend the money. Still, the R134A elcheapo conversion kits might not blow as cold at R12, but if it blows at least 55 degrees it will keep you cool until the temp outside hits the 90's. Been AC certified for many years, and have seen people pour money into older cars, only to watch them either sell the car or the car dies. Best advice I have is, apply what you want to spend to how much you really want to use the vehicle. Dan
Which ever one you use, before you have it charged, remove the hoses from the compressor and expansion valve and replace the "O" rings. If your lines are original or real old, have new ones made. No sense in filling it full of whatever just to have it leak out. BTW, I kept R12 in mine. I went to a refrigeration class several years ago and ask the instructor about those kits. He had more certifications than Doug has cars. He said they will not work, and if they do, they wont last. I sure know a lot of guys that prove his theory wrong. Oh well, the debate continues.
Being that I have just completed my 5.0 EFI conversion, I'll have all new hoses & O-rings anyway. I plan on still using the original condensor completely cleaned, but I'm still looking for some answers to my questions...Anybody know?
I converted my wagon over to R-134A. It already had a new condensor and seals when I bought the car. The previous owner had spent about $1000 trying to get it to work. I replaced the compressor with a sanden compressor (the new style). Been exactly a year, and no leaks. Still need to have a little more 134A added (the shop told me I might have to), but otherwise satisfied. Real cold running down the road. Not so cold sitting in traffic. Been that way since I had the conversion done.
As Paul Harvey says; now here's the rest of the story! Craig and DAN have it right. I go through this every spring and summer on the Lincoln boards, about the 134 conversion. Now get the rest of the story about what has to be done on all cars to properly change over to R134A, right from Ford. Go to this website and do the reading background. www.delanet.com/~pparish/ford-kit.htm
Thanks K.Merring for the info. I just want to make sure that I perform the conversion properly. I noticed that 89 thru 93 5.0 Mustangs do not have a kit available on the chart as of yet.
