injected and faceless, Thanks for the support! I try! faceless, I have found over the years that many will succeed and move forward with little fanfare. Some with great fanfare. Others will fail, and move forward with no fanfare at all, not wishing to announce their failure to the world. Maybe that could be the case here? You've just never heard about it......? I have. I think the bigger point though, is that there are "better fitting and safer" parts out there to use! More easily available, and just as inexpensive. Why take the chance?????? Would someone recommend the harder path when an easier path is available? If there are those of you out there that must absolutely run Explorer brakes, OK fine, it's your life. You will probably be fine! Maybe you got it best as you could, maybe you didn't. I don't take chances like that when it comes to my rides. If you didn't install some sort of spacer between your bearing and the bearing retainer, you probably have problems waiting to happen. (On standard 8" and 9" small bearing housings, all others, your mileage may vary!) I spec'd out both Explorer brakes and car brakes, for using them on the small bearing car housings when I was engineering the spacers, and no matter which type of backing plate, both required spacers for the bearings to be securely mounted in the axle housing. The new backing plates are much thicker than the drum brake backing plate, and that difference cannot be ignored! No competent mechanic would do so... I just think that the Explorer part have their places where they work better, but on our Comets and Mavericks, it is generally not the place. Kind regards, Steve
Steve...I wrote the explorer disc tech artical...they have been on my car 3 years without any problems. why not do a tech writeup and express your points of concerns? links and pics would be nice... Frank... didn't see your ebay listing here... http://mmb.maverick.to/forumdisplay.php?f=29
I agree with Frank, write and article and show us a better way of doing it. If it is easier, safer and the parts are easier to get, write it up. Thanks,
Here goes! Frank, Earl, Sounds like you guys have a lot of experience between the two of you! I'll take a stab at filling in some of the blanks here regarding the other backing plates. But I will defer back to your article/writings for the balance of the work with lines and such. Someone told me about these parts fitting our cars years ago, and I have been freely spreading the word as best I can, so I'm not trying to get rich quick off of anyone! I did however spend a lot of time and money coming up with the parts I sell to make this a safer swap for any that wish to undertake it! First, the finished product...looks similar right? This is a 91-95 setup: Note that the above photo shows a "hub spacer" installed on a small hub axle. This spacer keeps the rotor spinning in a proper round pattern vs an egg shaped one! Note that the studs shown are the late model wheel studs. The small hubs are 2.42" diameter, where the wheels bolt up, as opposed to 2.78" later axle ends. Here is a shot of the 91-95 backing plate: Note there is no dust cover and no holes in the legs for mounting a shield, indicating it is a 91-92 part. Shields became an item in 93! Here is the 96-02 part, that is identical to the Exploder parts except for the diameter of the center hole and the flange bolt pattern. This pattern is a direct bolt up to the axle flange on most of the 8" and 9" rear ends in our old classic cars, pre 74 or so. (Excepting Mav's and Comets!) Flange pattern is 3.3125"x2.00". Calipers and rotors are the same as those found on Explorers. Only the rubber flex lines are longer! Here is a shot showing a wheel bearing fitting into a 91-95 backing plate. See how these backing plates are supported by the bearing itself. Note the professional job on the bearing retainer ring! Certainly messed up this axle!!! On older housings, you will need to modify them to accept either of the above caliper brackets without interference. Simple to do and I describe easy pattern creation in my instructions. See below for the amount that needs to be removed.... Trace a pattern of the top of the housing flange,, flip it over, and cut off the excess! A cut-off wheel makes little work of this...probably one cutting wheel and at most, 5-10 minutes per side! A little file work to smooth the sharp edges, and some paint to protect it all. The bearing spacer I sell fits between the axle bearing and the bearing retainer plate. You will need to remove the bearing to properly install this piece, so if you haven't replaced your axle bearings ever, now would be a good time to spring for new bearings! Take them to a shop and they'll do this and put the longer Crown Vic wheel studs in your axles too! I have found that many original studs interfere with some rotors from some manufacturers, due to the shape of the shoulder. You could hog out the rotor...but what about the next guy...that doesn't know you did this? The later model studs have a better shape, plus they are a bit longer to compensate for the 3/16"-1/4" of outspacing that the rotor thickness causes. Always check your rim clearance with new rotors and pads in your calipers. If you are going to use 14" rims you will need to use 5mm-1/4" wheel spacers to move them out away from the calipers or you will have problems in the following area! See picture below! I am also going to recommend only using 1968 and up 14" rims if you must. I cannot guarantee that earlier 14" rims will fit over the calipers properly without interference. Those early rims have a different shape and were never made to fit over discs of this design with floating calipers. All of my R&D was done with 68 or newer steel rims. If you use 15" rims or larger, probably no issues, but your mileage may vary! Your responsibility to check this out! I really like the 2-1 parking brake cables! They allow for one cable from the front to the rear of the car. Much neater to run it down a frame rail than try and deal with the two cables all the way to the front that inevitably get tangled in the driveshaft or exhaust pipes while you are working on things! You will need to do some cable bracket fab'ing for a rear anchor point, and you may need to make a short adapter cable or shorten the main one shown here...all depends on your car. Some ask about why one caliper is fore of the axle and one is rear? Why? Because this way Ford had to only manufacture one bracket and one caliper. The only part that was odd from side to side was the parking brake cable! Saves you money and you never have to search for the "other side" pieces if you mess one up some how! Here is some boiler plate that I put in an ad over on the Mercury Cougar.net forum: I am offering a "kit" to allow you to more safely adapt 1991-2002 Lincoln Town Car, Ford Crown Victoria, and Mercury Grand Marquis rear disc brakes to your stock small bearing 8" or 9" Ford rearend. Will work with 28 or 31 spline axles! This is the easiest way to convert to rear disc brakes that I am aware of! Just think, if they use these brakes on a monster Highway Patrol car, they should work great on a Cougar, Mustang, Falcon, Maverick, etc!!! Plus parts are easy to find, since they are still in use today, and best of all, they are CHEAP! These have internal drum type e-brake assemblies incorporated into the backing plate assembly and are not a part of the caliper, like the old Versailles unit, and like the SVO or Mark 7 calipers, both which are basically unavailable or expensive to find/rebuild. These late model calipers consist of a caliper housing, a piston, and the retractor seal and dust boot. How much simpler can it be! You must modify your housing ends slightly so that the caliper brackets fit properly, but this is easily done, and will not affect you if you should choose to go back to drums. Done properly, nobody would notice except for the most astute! Other than this, no major mods are needed but items will need to be fabricated. These are: 1) Brake line attachments- flex to hardline. Depends entirely on application. 2) E-brake attachment- changes from 2 sided cable to single cable. Much cleaner! 3) Remove any residual pressure valves etc. that may be in the master cylinder rear system. Not doing so, could result in the calipers staying "on" and you could cook your rotors/calipers! This is a standard item required on all rear disc conversions as far as I am aware. IF you are going to use factory 14" rims, you must use a 5mm or 1/8" wheel spacer to clear the caliper. If you are running stock 15" or aftermarket rims, clearance should not be an issue, however, not having access to every type of rim made, I reserve the right to be wrong! You will need the following pieces from the donor car to make this work properly: A COMPLETE set of disc brakes from either a 91-95 Lincoln or 92-95 Crown Vic or Grand Marquis, or the same from a 96 and up vehicle. Cop car stuff is fine!! You need: *Backing plates or caliper mounting plates/brackets *Backing plate mounting bolts (4 per side) *Calipers and rubber flex lines- (Some loaded calipers are now available for cheap too! Depends on how much you are charged at the wrecking yard!) *Rotors (new ones are cheap at $29-$40 each!!!! So you may not want to mess with used ones) *10- Wheel studs from same car. (this is important in two ways!) *E-brake cables- just easier to start with parts that work together! Typically, you can find these parts at wrecking yards for around $100 or less. If you add in new rotors, it may reach $170. Performance rotors and pads are readily available as well. How ever you come up with the donor parts, you will need something like my following kits to properly do the install. Here's what I offer: 91-95 Small hub axle kit: #9195SA Hub spacers to center the brake rotor on the small hubs. Bearing spacers- so that your axles don't move in the housing!!! This is extremely IMPORTANT!!! Failure to use these could be very dangerous!!! Backing plate washers- needed because of the way they are machined. Instructions- I lay it all out.... 91-95 Big hub axle kit: #9195BA All of the above except the hub spacers. This is for someone that has replaced their axles with later model (73 or 74 I believe) versions that have the larger hub diameter on them. Your stock rims will not fit on these axles unless someone has torched out the inner holes of the rims! 96+ Small hub axle kit: #9602SA Hub spacers to center the brake rotor on the small hubs. Bearing spacers- so that your axles don't move in the housing!!! This is extremely IMPORTANT!!! Failure to use these could be very dangerous!!! Instructions- I lay it all out.... 96+ Large Hub axle kit: #9602BA Same as the above but minus the hub spacers. Again, stock rims will not fit on these axles unless someone has torched out the inner holes of the rims! This would be needed if you have a '73-74 rear end or axles I believe. Proper installation will require that you have your old wheel bearings removed and replaced in order to fit the bearing spacers, however, if you've never done them yet, it is probably time to do so, as well as the housing seals. Just makes good sense! This really is one of the best kept secrets in the Ford world! You could make these spacers yourself and you are welcome to do so, however, don't expect me to cough up the dimensions.....! Of course then you may need to find a machinist friend, find metal stock, buy beer, and then wait..... OR, you can order them from me and be done with it, PLUS get instructions and pictures. See classified ads for more info. So now you have it. Rear disc brakes for under or about $200. This is affordable to just about everyone! If you are heading out to remove brake parts from a junkyard car, I put some tips in my auction text. Here's a summary! Tools: In order of use! *6 point 8mm box wrench- for removing pinion shaft lock bolt. (12 points will strip it off and sockets just don't fit!) *T40 Torx drive tool for 91-92 or 7mm Allen wrench for 93-95 caliper removal. 10mm wrench or socket for 96-2002 calipers. *18oz hammer for taking out wheel studs once you get the axles out! And for peening over cut steel brake lines- less brake fluid all over the place! * Aircraft tin snips- for cutting e-brake cable ahead of splice under driver's floorboard. Also for cutting metal brake lines and ABS sensor wires....if time is an issue.... The rest of the tools are normal standard and metric sockets. IF you are removing the pinion shaft lock bolt, and you end up with only a threaded piece about 3/4" long, pack up your tools and move to a new car. You should end up with a piece that has about 3/4" of threads, and a section about 1" long with no threads!!! Because of the angle of the hole, you will NEVER get this piece out of the center section with regular hand tools. Cut your losses, move on....! Take my word for it. OK, I'll end here. I cover the above and a LOT more in my instructions that come with the spacers. You pull the parts. Save the money. You will need to fab some brake line stuff, and some ebrake cable stuff. Maybe you'll need to modify your axle flange ends, but other than this, the installation requires only simple hand tools, no drills! I'll monitor this post and answer questions accordingly. Thank-you for the opportunity! I will also place an ad in the classified section with more info as to pricing and shipping. Cheers! Steve Adding this is for FYI! If you are doing this yourself, ie pulling your own parts off of an 8.8" rear end, the FIRST thing you want to do is pull the housing cover and see if you can get the pinion shaft lock bolt out in one piece! It MUST look like the picture posted below. If it doesn't, pack up your tools and move on because you will never get the axles out to allow you to pull the caliper brackets off of the housing!!!! (torch or sawzall will eventually get things apart....or a drill......but you will not have a useable 8.8" rear by the time you are done!) Use an 8mm SIX POINT WRENCH to pull this bolt out. 12 points can round the head and sockets just don't fit right because of interference. OK, I couldn't get this site to repost an attachment, so you'll need to go back to this thread to see a picture of this bolt....couldn't even change the name and upload it.....silly websites.....! http://mmb.maverick.to/showthread.php?t=85005&page=2 Hope this saves you some time! Steve
great info and writeup... I vote to move it to the ...tech artical section... ...and please add this link... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1973-Fo...eb6160&vxp=mtr
Fastmerc, Any thoughts on the 2003 and up Crown vic, Marquis and Town car rear brakes? I have been thinking of changing to this setup anyway for the thicker vented rotors. There are some differences but I believe it's doable.
This whole thing has me wondering again what kind of brakes I really put on the back of my Maverick... See I'd planned for a good while to do the swap before I actually did it. I collected lots of parts. I'd grabbed brakes off an Explorer, a Lincoln and a 99ish cop car. I thought, and told people for a good while, that I had used the Explorer brakes. But then it came time to buy new pads for it and I discovered otherwise. The Explorer pads were too small. The Lincoln/CVPI pads did match up though, so then I corrected myself and told people I'd used those. Now I'm wondering if I just mixed everything up. See, I put my calipers both on the same side of the wheel. But I don't know whether I flipped one of the Vic/Merc/Lincoln brackets or whether I used Explorer brackets. I know I used the car calipers, but I don't know which rotors I'm using, or if they're even different. But by keeping both sides the same I was able to use the Maverick parking brake cables... I recall having to trim the mounting flange on one side, but I did not need a spacer of any kind. I guess one day when I'm working on the rearend I'll just have to get some part numbers...
Earl and I have had ours on for about 3 years...no problems so far. what Steve has going is a good thing. I can see where it would center the rotor plus stop any bearing pop if you have any... I don't think he has any spacers for the Explorer setup...I talked to him about getting some for my setup to see if it would make a difference. ...Frank...
Frank, I don't believe you can mix and match rotors.....while you may be able to swap old to newer, the other way doesn't work...newer to older.....so you need "like" parts for that. Why? Musta been another one of Ford's better ideas...... Pads- I believe Explorers and some of the 96-02 cars used metallic pads and I venture to say that they appear smaller but provide similar braking to a larger pad of organic materials. I know the rotors wear faster with the metallic pads! Lots of dust on the 96-02 rear wheels when I see 'em! 96-02 calipers may use a steel piston or a phenolic version.... and all pads "should" interchange. But I've been wrong before.... In the 91-95's most pistons were phenolic with cop/HD fleet cars getting steel. Pads didn't interchange unless you changed pistons AFAIK! You can mount both brackets such that the calipers are in the rear, but this probably puts one of the calipers upside down, so you need to bleed the system a little unorthodox. I just visited RockAuto.com and checked out 2001 calipers as a pot shot for some info. The Crown Vic caliper pistons are the same diameter as the Explorer version! 1.88 or 1.884 depending on who's spec. Now, in the Crown Vic section they do list a 1.180 bore for HD police.....I don't know if that is a typo or correct! OK, the brake bleeder thing was bugging me, and after looking at RockAuto again, for 1996 parts, this year, the Explorer DID use unique left and right calipers!!! This would make Frank's bleeders line up! Doesn't help that even Rock Auto offers about 10 different versions of every caliper available.....! Probably all from the same shop in Mexico somewhere! They do show a dual piston (2x 1.81") front caliper....hmmmmm!!!! I wonder...... Darned computers make me dumberer every day..... Cheers! Steve
Well whatever I did, that's the result I got. I'm back to thinking it was the CVPI or Lincoln brakes I used, and flipped one of the brackets.
