My build "White Fang"

Discussion in 'General Maverick/Comet' started by rag9836, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    When you put that cam in, if that is the one you end up using, part of its higher RPM sweet spot will be blocked by the intake, and the lower RPM sweet spot of the intake will be blocked by the overlap in your cam. If you want to have fun in your car on weekends, you need a car that will not overheat, not buck at low speeds, and not have lousy torque in lower RPM ranges. Your current combo will be helped with the heads and a better gear. The heads might be overkill, but if you want to go faster later, they will be there. That cam is getting a bit hot for a street car in my opinion, unless you really want to let er rip at the track. The higher up the RPM band you shift your max torque number, you will have less power at lower RPM. That intake is basically a stock 4 bbl intake made out of aluminum, and is made for a low RPM max torque number.

    So, the downside is.....there is no upside, but it will run. All the money you spend to go fast will be wasted until you get rid of it. But the question really becomes.....do I want a car that makes me smile, or do I want a car that gives me spinal adjustments when I plow the gas pedal? Ultimately, no one can answer that except you, lol. I am soooo lucky my budget answers all these questions for me!
     
  2. rag9836

    rag9836 1972 Comet, 67K

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    @stumanchu Thanks. As the heads are the most expensive, figured I would grow into them and update the intake and carb down the road if needed. Called Comp Cam to run by what I was thinking and they want to know compression ratio....so trying to figure that out now.
     
  3. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Are you re-building the bottom end? If so, you plan the build to give a desired compression ratio. If not, you need to measure how far the top of the piston (at TDC) is below the deck surface of the block, how thick your gasket will be, How big of a bore the gasket is intended for, the chamber size of your head, and the size of any valve reliefs in your pistons. All this space divides into the cylinder volume for your ratio. there are compression calculators on line.....google them and try them out until you get what you are after. When I swap my heads, I am not going to buy gaskets until I know exactly how far below deck my pistons are. They come in a variety of thicknesses, and this alters compression slightly, and governs something referred to as "squish." There are other terms used I think, but I like that one. It is the distance between the top of your piston and the bottom of your head. It is important to get this distance as close to optimum as you can to promote mixing of your air/fuel charge in the cylinder. If you can get it closer with one gasket over another.....that is worth knowing. Read about squish in your spare time. I spent hours trying to understand it well.


    Comp Cams will want to know your planed static (ratio derived mathematically) CR to avoid a cam with too much overlap, which will lower your dynamic (actual CR in a running engine) CR. This too is simplistic, as it will change some with engine speed if your engine is breathing without restrictions. Be sure to have a good idea what you want to do with the car if they ask. There are a lot of details to be considered if you want the most bang for your buck, and research is your friend......plus part of the fun is learning what does what. I am still learning for sure.
     
  4. rag9836

    rag9836 1972 Comet, 67K

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    @stumanchu Thanks. Yes, I am rebuilding the bottom end. Going to have the block bored, honed, surfaced.
    For the build it's AFR 165's the Com Cam 31-238-3 https://www.compcams.com/xtreme-energy-218-224-hydraulic-flat-cam-for-ford-221-302.html , going with a 2500 stall.

    Brother in-law is dropping off trans to Hughes in Phoenix next week. They are saying a two week turnaround once they have it. Hopefully I get enough time to fix the cowl before then.

    But yes, lots of research... my first engine build, it all sounds like greek!
     
  5. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    I think that one is a better choice than the other one. If I still hate my current cam after I swap my heads, I was thinking of trying that exact one, so you will have to tell ME about it someday.
     
  6. Hotrock

    Hotrock Rick, an MCCI Member Supporting Member

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    I'll take that as a complement. Hotrock is a great car to drive, outstanding throttle response at even very low speeds. That is due to a well tuned carburetor and a 3500 stall speed convertor. If you notice in my videos, I beat opponents out of the gate and then they can't catch me. Both videos in my Garage posting are heads-up racing not bracket. In other words both lights are turning green at the same time. It is a combination of a better reaction times plus better 60' times.

    I'd like to offer my opinion concerning your future build. Seems to me you are all over the board with your component selection. If you are not going to race your car, why an out-of-state built Hughes transmission? A reputable local shop should be able to perform a rebuild. A local guy does mine and then services it every 1-2 years. Nothing trick what-so-ever in my C4 except that 3500 stall convertor. I keep mentioning that 3500 stall convertor. There is a reason for that. I have run both and the 3500 stall unit performs far better than the 2500 stall unit. Also, better street manners with my camshaft.

    As far as your project, if this is your first engine build I wouldn't be purchasing expensive components i.e. AFR heads, Comp Cam. Actually, if I were you I would purchase a short block less roller cam whether it be a 306 or 331 -347 stroker then install AFR heads and choice of cam. That would be plenty of challenge for a first time builder. Know that in order to get the most out of those AFR heads and a matching cam requires a trip to 6000 rpm from time-to-time. My choice of cam would be your first and not your second. The second cam is too small for those AFR heads. Your only issue may be valve-to-piston clearance with the big cam. Going with a short block should allow you to achieve your end-of-year drive the Comet date.

    Just to repeat, if your desire is to totally build that engine yourself I would use less expensive components. Summit brand parts are a good choice. Just a little food for thought.

    Remember the ultimate goal is to drive the car, not work on it all the time!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  7. rag9836

    rag9836 1972 Comet, 67K

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    @Hotrock Thanks for the feedback. The car is not going to be raced. The preference for the out of state trans is that, I am not confident in any of the locals shops and prefer to have the work be done just once. I've got a brother in-law that works five minutes from Hughes that will be picking up and dropping off the trans. With the idea of doing on only doing it once, that's why I selected Hughes and the AFRs. With the first cam I wanted to go with, in speaking with AFR; they mentioned that my stock pistons would not hold up with the 165 head and recommended the second.

    The engine is the original 72 and has never been worked on so I am tearing it all down and having it cleaned, bored and honed. If later down the road I want a bigger cam, intake and carb, I'll have the heads in place.

    Hoping that the AFRs and the second cam I posted get me into the mid to upper 300 HP range.

    I really appreciate everyone's feedback on all of this. Can't stop thinking about the parts selection....should really be focused on this cowl repair.
     
  8. rag9836

    rag9836 1972 Comet, 67K

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  9. Hotrock

    Hotrock Rick, an MCCI Member Supporting Member

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  10. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    As I read that, I was expecting them to use stock EFI based on the claims of the title. I was wondering to myself if their dyno was smoking crack, or maybe just smoked. Nice heads tho, even if the #s are a bit fishy.
     
  11. rag9836

    rag9836 1972 Comet, 67K

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    To access/repair the cowls....does the dash HAVE to come out?
     
  12. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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  13. rag9836

    rag9836 1972 Comet, 67K

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    The rust is pretty bad. I need to remove the cowl. Just didn't know if the dash had to come out for certain.

    Trans is at the shop being worked on, back in two weeks. Found new glass for the windshield $285, $165 for new rubber gasket.

    All of the engine machine work is looking to run about 1K...still need to break down the block.

    cowl.JPG engine.JPG
     
  14. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Is that an estimate? Or are you going to get the 302 rebuilt and go with it? Some of that is for heads.
     
  15. rag9836

    rag9836 1972 Comet, 67K

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    Thats their machine work is estimate.

    I am doing new heads...
     

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