Starting getting harder and harder...

Discussion in 'Technical' started by AppMaverick, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. baddad457

    baddad457 Member

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    Could be the starter's field coils are shot. That will cause the hot wire to overheat leading to the starter. Buy a new starter, not a reman, reman's rare ever get new field coils when they're rebuilt. If the field coils aren't replaced, the rebuild is worthless. If you have a local starter/alternator shop (these are going the way of the dinosaurs like other things) get them to rebuild your starter with high torque field coils
     
  2. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom Supporting Member

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    But why???

    A PMGR starter will give as much cranking torque on probably 2/3 of the current of those dinosaur field coil type starters... My old '93 Grand Marquis would still start when the battery was so bad the power door locks would not operate(yeah it turned a bit slow)... That was a major surprise, been sold on the PMGR starter ever since...
     
  3. AppMaverick

    AppMaverick Member

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    The starter only has about 5k miles on it since buying it new... But that does sound similar to what's happening... The wire from the battery to the selenoid is getting really hot. But in all fairness, I'm cranking it enough to kill the battery.

    My alternater is new as of 2k miles ago... But that doesn't mean I don't have a short somewhere else. Got a good test method for this? Don't seem to have a battery drain problem when it sits. Usually drive it daily, but it did sit for a couple of weeks recently and kept it's charge.

    As far as tuning... I was thinking of advancing the timing alittle so I could lower my carb idle screw. Maybe that will stop the slow leak I've got going into the carb. Don't know why my tuning would have changed on me all of a sudden tho... I didn't play with, or adjust anything :hmmm:
     
  4. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    what is this...:huh:
     
  5. baddad457

    baddad457 Member

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    If the field coils are shot in the starter, that will drain the voltage to the ignition, making it harder to fire off the mixture. The easier the starter works, the hotter the fire is to the plugs.
     
  6. baddad457

    baddad457 Member

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    Some people LIKE the older style starters.:Welcome:
     
  7. AppMaverick

    AppMaverick Member

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    This is why I was having starting problems. I have some sort of slow gas leak into my carb. If it sits more than like 6 hours without being started, my carb is flooded. Kinda ruled out the carb being a heat sink because if i start it before 6 hours it's not flooded yet. If it were a heat thing, the carb would flood much quicker.... Haven't figured out this problem yet.

    Thought maybe it was the choke only getting 6v instead of 12v, but hooked it straight up to the battery and it made no difference....

    My coil is only getting 5.7v going to it... with the Petronix system it's supposed to get 12v. Maybe a contributor.... But doesn't explain why I had a few months of starting with just a turn of the key and then problems all of a sudden.
     
  8. blugene

    blugene Senior member Supporting Member

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    I have read that a fuel tank/system that is not venting properly can build pressure causing a flooding condition while the vehicle sits. So can trash on the float needle.
     
  9. groberts101

    groberts101 Member

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    very good point.

    After this is all said and done.. we can go round and round saying try this and try that.. but an unknown variable such as this one clearly having other issues.. needs to be base-lined out with a fresh carb and recalibrated ignition.

    As for the wiring in these cars?.. you don't need to have something wrong with them to smoke wires from repeatedly cranking them over and over to start it. Especially if it's being done so excessively to drain a battery. There are basic rules involving the electrical system and you're ignoring them. Prices will and have been paid by many.

    I'm betting that if you fix the carb and adjust things so it quickly starts as it's supposed to?.. the burnt wires and dead batteries will go away. Seem's pretty clear there's some underlying issues causing new ones.
     
  10. blugene

    blugene Senior member Supporting Member

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    (y) <--mmb like button :biglaugh:
     
  11. AppMaverick

    AppMaverick Member

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    Venting issue could make sense.... That's a new one. I'll also look up how to check the float needle on my carb. Thanks!:tiphat:

    The carb is new with less than 2k miles on it.. I'll look up how to check the float needle. Can't imagine anything else could be wrong with it yet.

    I'll go ahead and get 12v going to the ignition coil... other than that, don't know what you'd do to "baseline" the ignition.

    Pretty sure the main problem is the fuel... Sitting overnight I can look down into the carb and see puddled gas. Enough that when I blow hard into it, I get gas all over my face. Pretty sure the burnt wires are just from frustration cranking.... But I'm not opposed to short testing if I knew how. Learning the rules as I go, and paying the price, that's part of the fun (y)

    Haha
     
  12. blugene

    blugene Senior member Supporting Member

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    They make different types of short finders. A common one that most can do and is affordable is the ohms test. I like using an ohm meter that has the sound option. I set it to make the sound/beep tone when continuity is good. This at least helps find the breaks. Knowing the ohm spec is something else.
     
  13. groberts101

    groberts101 Member

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    The venting issue is a simple one to test. Idle the car until it warms up well enough to reproduce the typical fuel puddling issue.. and then pull off the gas cap to see if it stops doing it. If the pressure creep still occurs?.. it's not a venting issue. A hot exhaust routed closer to the tank or any fuel lines(including the filter) can easily exaggerate such venting issues too.

    Another similar test to the "gas cap test" would be to disconnect the fuel line off the carb and see if the fuel still leaks out internally. If so?.. the carb is leaking internally out of the idle transition slot.

    Mileage often has less to do with the creation of carb issues than the length of time it sat with dried gas. There's a bunch of crap that settles out of gas if the carb has not been properly drained out or flushed before storage and one tiny chunk of crust or sludge in just the wrong place is all it takes sometimes. Do the tests above to take the easy way.. and then follow up by pulling the carb apart if required. Installing premium style Viton tipped needles can also help reduce the tendency of fuel "spill over" as well.

    About the timing. You'll want at least 8 degrees of initial timing or it will likely run pig rich and be harder to pop off. Wouldn't hurt to check spark intensity on a loose grounded plug either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014

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