The life and times of my 71 maverick

Discussion in 'Maverick/Comet Projects' started by Bryant, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. mav1970

    mav1970 Bob Hatcher

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    What made you decide to not go with the Watts Linkage?
     
  2. Bryant

    Bryant forgot more than learned

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    several different sources led me to it.
    first maier racing uses and sells pan hard bars for leaf spring mustangs. they seem to have done the most development on stock type ford suspension for handling.
    then on pro touring their are 2 different threads in the suspension section that really helped. ron sutton on that board is an incredible wealth of knowledge.
    the tunability of a double adjustable pan hard bar is much easier and very effective. lastly is space. to fit the watts link in with a sway bar, shocks, exhaust pipes, fuel tank, fuel pump and lines would be a very difficult to fit in the car. the pan hard will also be tricky to fit but much easier than a watts link. i have to move my fuel pump but thats all.
     
  3. mav1970

    mav1970 Bob Hatcher

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    Thanks for the explanation - I know what you are saying about limited space but I think I will continue with some sort of design to use my Watts Linkage unless I hit a point where, with the limited space I just give up - my fuel cell sticks through the floor but is narrower front to rear than the original 70 drop in tank so that opened up some room for me - I am using a 4 link with coil overs so I have to have something to locate the rear no matter what
     
  4. Bryant

    Bryant forgot more than learned

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    so i have been going to the autocross pretty frequently. i have started to get an understanding of what and why the car behaves the way it does. first problem tires. i was on 4 year old nito 555s. so not the best tires. i just got some falcons. just driving on the street i can tell the increase in grip. next ive been having a local alignment shop do my front alignment. its an old school shop that does it with out the computer machines. you know the old school way. they just didnt get that i wanted a handling alignment for autocross. they said that will wear the tires. the last time they aligned the car i had set all the caster adjustments to the max the had them only adjust one side to match the other. so i took the time to do my own alignment. i left the caster alone. i used an angle finder app on my i phone to adjust the camber from the 0 degrees they had it at to -2 degrees. i then made 2 toe bars that clamp to the bottom of the wheel and used tape measure to set toe. i set it to 1/8" toe in.
    next thing i was experiencing was a whip effect in the rear end. i believed that my rear leaf springs would deflect badly to the side in a turn and when i would straighten out and apply power the rear would want to whip back the other way. so ive made a pan hard bar. thank you to ron sutton for the guidance with the design. here are pics of the pan hard bar


    view from the bottom. you can see the slider tube coming down from the frame with the gold slider clamp . also note the tube reinforcement brace. i ran it to the fuel tank support. you can also see how the slider box clamps onto the differential.
    [​IMG]

    Here you can see the slider box clamped to the differential.
    [​IMG]

    another angle of the slider box.
    [​IMG]

    here you can see the tube slider. i ended up with a limited amount of height adjustment. going down it will hit the leafspring and going up it will hit the exhaust. i would say i have about 2 to 3 inches of adjustment for roll center.
    [​IMG]

    heres a pick of the slider bar bracket and rod end. Ron Sutton sells these at a really good price.
    [​IMG]

    heres a different view of the axle clamp slider box assembly.
    [​IMG]

    and another, note the first attempt at a light weight pvc pan hard bar!
    [​IMG]

    heres my good buddy Mike welding the the tube slider to the frame. check out our cool stands. the car goes up on the hoist then we have 4 wheel stands that are about 5' high we set the car down on so the suspension is compressed at ride height. also you get a good look at the brand new falcon tires on the car.
    [​IMG]

    here is the slider tube. if you look above the exhaust pipe you can see where we welded the tube to a plate that we shaped and welded to the floor and frame rail.
    [​IMG]

    another view of the slider tube that you can see the frame welding.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. bkcha

    bkcha Member

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  6. Bryant

    Bryant forgot more than learned

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    ive looked at caster camber guages. my wheels are aluminum so a magnetic one wont work. and honestly what info does it tell me that an angle finder doesnt tell me?
     
  7. bkcha

    bkcha Member

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    It can be done with either set up but with the angel finder all your getting is a static measurement, with the C/C gauge “my opinion” it easier and better reading on the 20 degree left and right reading.
     
  8. Bryant

    Bryant forgot more than learned

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    does the camber caster gauge measure out the 20 degrees or do i need turn tables with a degrees indicator?

    the panhard bar and tires made a HUGE improvement at the autocross last saturday. car never wanted to spin out. if anything its now pushing a little in the turns. im thinking of putting the rear sway bar back on to see how that effects it now the the rearend is stabilized.

    i did realign the car after the autocross at home. it was pretty easy. i have alignment slugs that are hexagon shaped in the lower control arm instead of eccentric cams. i figured out that the all the way setting is 0 degrees camber, the middle setting is -1 degrees, and all the way out is -2 degrees. so for the street driving i put it at 0 and for the autocross i put it at -2 degrees. then i readjust toe using the toe bars and tape measure set up i made. oh also i put folded up trash bags under the tires to work like turn tables. that worked really well.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    please excuse the dirty wheels. thats from the racing brake pads ive been using. one day of autocrossing will do that amount of brake dust!

    heres the car with clean wheels!
    [​IMG]
     
  9. bkcha

    bkcha Member

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    The C/C gauge doesn’t read the 20 degrees, but I don’t see why you couldn’t use your trash bag trick and angel finder instead of turn tables.
     
  10. Bryant

    Bryant forgot more than learned

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    i was thinking of printing out a big protractor to put on the ground or under the tire and do some sort of pointer. i have several different aps that give the level bubble and degree angles that i think the c/c gauge gives. also i still havent found one that i can attach to my wheel. so far just doing my camber and toe has been successful. my caster was set by the alignment shop an it is at the max adjustment that is available. it would be nice to know what it is and ill figure it out one way or another some day but right now im very happy with the results im getting. i do appreciate the advice and help bkcha, thank you.

    so after my last autocross, im thinking i need to try the rear swaybar again. this pic was sent to me the other day and it looks like more body roll than i think i should have.
    [​IMG]
    as ive had a few days to digest how the car felt, i think it has slight understeer now. im going to be going back over all the different resources ive found to see what i can do to tune the car to turn better. i now feel that i have a car that is controllable and tuneable. before the pan hard bar, there was a unpredictable factor. now it seems very controlled.
     
  11. bkcha

    bkcha Member

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  12. 2mav4u

    2mav4u It will someday be back on the road

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    Happy birthday Bryant! I only remembered because we share the same day lol
     
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  13. Bryant

    Bryant forgot more than learned

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    Happy belated birthday to you!
     
  14. Bryant

    Bryant forgot more than learned

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    so i got a new steering wheel and aem air fuel ratio gauge for my birthday. installed them this week. i took some pics and video of it.
    heres the new wheel. ive wanted one with suede grips for autocross and this was to best one that grant offered. i went with grant so i wouldnt have to buy a new adaptor.
    [​IMG]
    here is the old wheel installed
    [​IMG]
    and the new wheel installed
    [​IMG]
    heres some video of the new air fuel gauge installed. i also replaces some of the burnt out led lights in the gauges, rearranged the gauges and replaced the boost gauge with the new air fuel gauge. i also installed the light switch and wiper switch in the dash.

    heres the air fuel gauges working. ive never trusted the innovate gauge and it appears to about 1/2 a point richer than the aem gauge
     
  15. Crazy Larry

    Crazy Larry Member

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    The old steering wheel looks much better.
     

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