Discussion in 'Parts Interchange' started by awannabegrabber, Sep 29, 2007.
Ok. good news for you guys. that 4.6 is goin into an 89 RX7.
Anyone familiar with mod motor crossmembers? Are they basic, like any V-8 crossmembers, or are there some major differences?
Since my Crown Vic Interceptor isn't a collectors item or in pristine condition, I thought it'd be fun to try some Frankenstein experiments if and when the 4.6 someday kicks the bucket.....like a 5.0 or even a big block.
the one in my moms 03 Vic' is like a massive aluminum k-member, kinda like a mustang.....but not quite. Looks like a crappy piece of junk that when they were engineering the car the were like....,,,,,:16suspect what the heck are we gonna do with the frt end and motor supports.... ahhh, lets just slap this massive weak hunk of metal in here and call it a "crossmember
I am highly interested in this swap as well. My 4.6 only has 109k on it, but when it dies in another 200k, I would like to swap to a 5.4 or 351w.
Look up all the steels and if you look at any metillurgical book, heck if you look at the machinists handbook you will find that the weakest aluminum is stronger then higher grade steel counterparts. That is one of the reasons, besides weight, that they build aircraft with aluminum and not steel.
aircraft quality aluminum is quite stronger than the crap that is used on an average car. cast aluminum is not very strong, but billet aluminum is. and i promise u the aluminum in the frt of a crown vic is cast.
But you are incorrect it is all 6061 T6 I work with it almost every day both in the cast and billets. And the flight control housings and manifolds are exactly the same metillurgical make up of cast aluminum used in the auto industry.
With that thinking what would you say about the kevlar based composite material that is being used in the manufacturing of aircraft
ok you are right, is that what you want to hear? but why are you wanting to argue about the strength of metals? this is not even related to the subject of this thread. Why do we even need a site to have discussions on cars since YOU already know everything, maybe we should all work together to build a site where if we have something to discuss, we can just ask you the "right" answer. Because it is obvious that you know it all
AMS 6061 T6 (cast or forged) differs from SAE based on quality control. You get much more porosity and inclusion in SAE materials.
When desiging with SAE materials rather than AMS you need to add margin to the factor of safety to make up for the reduction in 3 sigma strength.
Having said all of that, the stresses a car puts on parts is minimal. We're talking single digit ksi, or less, in most cases. Even with SAE cast aluminum that is more than adequate.
6061 with the T6 heat treat really isn't used much in our castings. We use AMS 4219 (SAE A357) and AMS 4144 (SAE 2219). It welds better than the 6061 and performs better as a rigid castings too. 6061 is great for tubes and plates and things made of billet. It's cheap (for the most part) and gets the job done.
The highest power one of our aluminum gearboxes will handle is 40,000 HP give or take a couple hundred HP.
SAE 7050 is also used in a couple of places, but it's applications are more specialized.
On topic, the 4.6 2V motor really isn't worth the time or effort. The 4V engine is great for a small displacement motor. In a class where you run lbs/ci the 4V mod motor would be a great mill to run.
I like it because you don't see a lot of people using them becuase they're big and heavy and don't put down the big torque numbers of a stroker small block or a big block.
I really like the way they look too.
The right answer
It was quoted that aluminum was weak just because it was cast and I was merely making a statement against it. For some reason many people have come to the conclusion that aluminum is a weak material in cast forms. I was just trying to rebutte the point at which time you attacked me directly. And you continue to attack me directly I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I appreciate comments if I am wrong but I dont think any of us need to be insulted.
I will agree with you I merely used 6061 T6 as a reference because most people even have a hard time understanding exactly what billett aluminum is and why it is stronger. Apparently this was easily shown...I still use it in several applications but I usually use AMS 5659 stainless with ceramic coatings. I appreciate your input and I am glad to see that there are people here that are not just knowledgeable in Mavericks and Comets it is nice to see we have people from all spectrums on this forum
some more basic info
Some treasure trove that wikipedia is! The first two casting runs of the 4.6 used sbf pattern. When was that? 90 castings for 91 models? Now that sounds a lot simpler, keeping your old C4 and all. A nice table is provided I will post the link in this category.
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