Roller motor from P&P

Discussion in 'Parts Interchange' started by stumanchu, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    just call your cam Guy and get his opinion...:huh: the first cam company I called about a cam suggested I run this and that instead of what parts I had planned to run. he was suggesting "best bang for my bucks". this Guy could do the same. keep us up on what he has to say.
     
  2. Hotrock

    Hotrock Rick, an MCCI Member Supporting Member

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    From my experience the choice of carburetor, rear gear and torque convertor if automatic, have far more impact on how a car performs (i.e. fun factor) than a custom cam over an off-the-shelf cam. You can't convince me once you have your custom cam designed and installed for your particular combination of carburetor, gearing and torque convertor you are never going to change any of that combination. Most members on this website including me are never satisfied with their cars. We are constantly changing them; hopefully for the better.

    The suggestions that have been given for off-the-shelf cam selection will get you in the ball park. Experimenting with carburetor, gearing and torque convertor will win you the game. For an example with my street/strip 302 Comet, changing from a 3,000 rpm convertor to a 3,500 got me over 1/2 second better ET in the 1/4 mile. That is a huge difference for a 500 rpm change in stall speed! A change like that has real impact on seat of the pants driving. You won't find real world differences in performance like that between custom and the member suggested off-the-shelf cams.

    It isn't like these Ford 302s haven't been performance built before, there are thousands of combinations. Build your engine first with off-the-shelf parts then select your car's components around it.

    Again, just my experience. Have fun!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
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  3. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    You make an excellent point about fine tuning to what you have. Once you are flirting with low 13s, netting another 1/2 second would make spectators like me suspect a whole new motor, or at least new top end......lol, that is amazing. I think when the other motor comes out, I will detail the engine compartment and switch my focus to body and paint. But who knows, so many distractions, so little time!
     
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  4. Krazy Comet

    Krazy Comet Tom Supporting Member

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    For a moderately cammed engine(say TFS 1), converter stall is paramount. Switching from the stock Super Coupe converter to a 2600 stall(still at least 800-1000 rpm shy of optimum), my Bird dropped from a best of 14.08@101.32 to 13.56@101.57. No tune work, ran same MPH, 60ft decreased from 2.25 to 1.96. Upgrading from stock 5.0 Stang exhaust to full 2½" system, it jumped to 13.65 @ 102.63 (FFW swealtry 95*). On a cool night same went 13.38@103.91. With fresh tuneup at approx 50* temp, ran 13.11@105.32. If I'd ever gotten off my ass and increased stall, it would have ran at least a 12.90.
     
  5. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Got rod bearings from Summit and replaced them all. The rod side bearings were fairly worn, and the bank of cylinders with higher compression were worn slightly more....as in copper was just peeking through. Pic below is the worst of the bunch. I am assuming the cap side of main bearings would get the most wear? the ones I inspected looked much better than even the best rod cap bearing.
     

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  6. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    I acquired a used Edelbrock performer RPM from Facebook "marketplace." One advantage to used is that, besides affordability, it comes with all the fittings and carb studs! lol....had been on the lookout for a dual plane intake for some time and it finally turned up. Now, the only thing holding up assembly is the camshaft....and after more, and more, and more research and thought, I have decided that anything over 220 @ .050 duration is too much, and that GT40 heads probably flow no better at .5 lift than they do at .45 lift. So, while the perfect cam is probably rolling around the back of a cam grinders mind, a stock HO cam is probably close enough. And, P&P has a '89 GT that will cost me 30 bucks to yank the cam out of. Besides.....what is fitting for a junkyard build in the first place? I got a date to thrash on a GT convertible, spend 30 bucks, and have hours of therapy. I sure hope it doesnt rain on Tuesday.
     

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  7. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Went to the junk store and had cam in hand 3 1/2 hours later. I was impressed with how clean the motor was under the intake and valve covers.....cam looked very nice, so I took it home. Then......I.....measured........it. It seemed very small, just like the cam I wanted to get rid of. hmmmmmmmmm. Then I put it in my motor on the stand and did the degree wheel and dial indicator treatment to find out it is a .376/.406 lift, 184/195 @.050 duration, 107.5 LSA, 110 ICL, put-put cam. I guess the GT motor got swapped for this generic cammed 302 rebuild and explains why it was so clean inside? I'm disgusted enough to just put this mess on hold until I have some dough to buy something that I want in there. I think this would jack up my cylinder pressure more than I want. More schooling; more therapy.
     
  8. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    Mo money $$$
     
  9. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    To make matters worse, a friend of mine loaned me a cordless impact of which I have never used before.....and now I need one of those too!!!!!!:rofl2:
     
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  10. 71gold

    71gold Frank Cooper Supporting Member

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    they do make some nice ones.
     
  11. baddad457

    baddad457 Member

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    Next time check the heads before digging into it. That may give you an idea as to what's inside. Lower front corner next to the valve cover on E7 heads will have a "T" (HO motors aside from the 86 motor all had E7 heads) The 94-97 truck/van 5.0's had the excellent F4TE cam, which is just a tad less than the HO roller. Also found in the Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 and the 94-97 roller 5.8. The E6 heads on the pass car 5.0's have an "S" in that corner. These had the base roller cam you ended up with as did the 92-93 pickup/van 5.0.
     
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  12. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    That is a good idea. There is one more mustang GT in the P&P across town, and I will inspect the heads and maybe take my dial indicator with me. They have a 30 return policy and even though 30 bucks isnt that much, I am going to trade the other cam for credit and buy the one in their GT if it still has the motor. lol....hope it doesnt rain tomorrow.
     
  13. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Left that P&P yard with HO cam in hand, ID'd by ZE stamp and caliper estimation of lobe size x 1.6 to be .445. Pulley bolt on the crank got cross threaded somehow on the way out....I smashed a hole in the back of the timing chain cover to get to the camshaft. What a mess, but the deed is done.
     
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  14. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    The 95 GT cam is installed. .006 duration is I 269 E 263, @ .050 is 209 for both. Lift is .443 and .435. I put clay in every cylinder to check clearance and verify all valve pocket locations. I got .100 on intakes and .120 on exhaust, so if I do a different cam someday there is room for a bit more duration.

    Heads are bolted down with new dowels, thick hardened washers from the hardware store, and a .055 gasket on the .020 out bank, and a .050 gasket on the .015 out bank (drivers side). The old head bolts were not torque to yield, and were re-used. I used a torque wrench with a dial on it, and I could tell when the fire ring on the gaskets was crushing....at 50 ft. lbs. All bolt holes were chased, the top ones got oiled and the bottoms got thread sealer.
    I started shimming all my pedestals at .040 to match what was removed from the head bottom, and by adding another .010 to 3 of them and subtracting .010 from one, all hit 20 ft. lbs. with 1/2 to 2/3 turn.

    Up next is sorting out the intake and deciding if port alignment will be a concern, and how I will end up doing it. I have 3 different sets of intake gaskets.....I bought a bunch of parts for 40 bucks which included a complete 302 engine set with some additions, a new c4 pan and gasket, a core distributor, and such.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  15. stumanchu

    stumanchu Stuart

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    Just a distributor away. A new duralast or spectra (depending on the parts store) comes with a vac advance and a steel gear, and is cheaper than a steel gear alone. Then I need to pick a module. The GM 4 pin adjusts the dwell like the TFI module, but will be triggered by the DS2 distributor and runs off 12v without any resistor, and will fire a TFI coil, but the DS2 module has a hot start retard feature. In the end, I guess either will do the job. I will re-use only the carb and fuel pump from the current engine. It is very close!
     

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